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Thread: Change

  1. #21
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Steve, very informative post and I learned something. Based on your evidence I have to admit that you have convinced me to some degree and that I agree with your analysis.

  2. #22
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    Meh... I'm so tired of the Democrats vs. Republicans game. Neither of them deserve to be commended for much recently. They are all corrupt and out for themselves. They care very little about what the American people actually want. And the old addage about congress is more true now than ever. "Congress is good at doing two things: Nothing, and over-reacting."

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekhead1219 View Post
    I'm still waiting for kev's response to that clip JS. Another example of facts not agreeing with the fiction I guess...
    Sorry to keep you waiting, but I've been at work and videos are a no-go on this computer.

    I'll be sure to share my wisdom (BS! ) when I get a chance to look at it from home.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Thus I lay the blame for the economic debacle we now face on the Carter administration, the Carter Congress, the Clinton administration, all members of Congress since Carter, and, finally, the Bush administration for promoting a stupid attempt at "fixing" the problem, and then signing the bill into law.
    So, Carter and Clinton are to blame, but Reagan and HW Bush hold no responsibility for a problem that, according to you, sat around unacknowledged for the entirety of their administrations? And the Republican love of deregulation and open markets had nothing to do with this mess either? I stand by my previous statement - Just because you want to keep your head in the sand and refuse to believe that any Republican could do any wrong doesn't mean its true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    But I lay most of the blame on Congress for its lack of oversight, lack of control, and general laxity, political, economic, and intellectual.
    (Of course, in the end the fault is all ours, because we voted the congresspeople into office, and we've kept them there.)
    We are to blame not for electing our congressional representatives, but rather we are to blame because we were too lazy to pay attention while they let their power and influence corrupt them.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev74 View Post
    ...We are to blame not for electing our congressional representatives, but rather we are to blame because we were too lazy to pay attention while they let their power and influence corrupt them.
    Agreed!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptarmigan View Post
    Steve, very informative post and I learned something. Based on your evidence I have to admit that you have convinced me to some degree and that I agree with your analysis.
    OK. So now, please tell me why you name yourself after a boreal bird, while exhibiting the face of a tropical primate as your avatar. How do the two fit together?

  7. #27
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Check your PM in a moment.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekhead1219 View Post
    I'm still waiting for kev's response to that clip JS. Another example of facts not agreeing with the fiction I guess...
    as we wait for a response, why don't we take a quick musical intermission with one of my personal favorites from Slipknot... that just happens to be titled... "Before I Forget"





    as you were...
    "bing bang boom! hair out...hamburger time" - William Murderface

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    I honestly think that I'm one of the only people left on this planet who is informed and has any memory whatsoever... I mean come on...kev.

    Here's a reminder for you.

    follow the link, please

    http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv
    Sorry to keep you waiting for my long awaited words of wisdom...

    First, back in 1998, the big threat was that Saddam was going to acquire WMDs and biological weapons. At that time, the UN sanctions were still in effect, weapons inspectors were still in Iraq and were still getting the access they requested, and nobody found any WMDs or biological weapons. I find it a bit amusing that those who have criticized Clinton for blowing up an aspirin factory based on bad intelligence are now saying that there was a credible threat in Iraq at that time that would have required intervention.

    Next, in 2002, the only evidence for WMDs or biological weapons in Iraq was the word of the Bush administration. Any democrats who said there was did so based on the word of Bush & Co. Remember, this was happening almost exactly 1 year after 9/11, and right before a mid-term election. Anyone who disagreed with the administration on this would have been shooting themselves in the foot and would have hurt their party right before an election.

    Third, if Iraq had WMDs or biological weapons, where did they go? Why haven't we found them in the last 6 years?

    If you haven't heard about him, you might want to look up Scott Ridder - Marine and chief UN Weapons Inspector from 1991 - 1998. Audio U-tube

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev74 View Post
    Sorry to keep you waiting for my long awaited words of wisdom...

    First, back in 1998, the big threat was that Saddam was going to acquire WMDs and biological weapons. At that time, the UN sanctions were still in effect, weapons inspectors were still in Iraq and were still getting the access they requested, and nobody found any WMDs or biological weapons. I find it a bit amusing that those who have criticized Clinton for blowing up an aspirin factory based on bad intelligence are now saying that there was a credible threat in Iraq at that time that would have required intervention.

    Next, in 2002, the only evidence for WMDs or biological weapons in Iraq was the word of the Bush administration. Any democrats who said there was did so based on the word of Bush & Co. Remember, this was happening almost exactly 1 year after 9/11, and right before a mid-term election. Anyone who disagreed with the administration on this would have been shooting themselves in the foot and would have hurt their party right before an election.

    Third, if Iraq had WMDs or biological weapons, where did they go? Why haven't we found them in the last 6 years?

    If you haven't heard about him, you might want to look up Scott Ridder - Marine and chief UN Weapons Inspector from 1991 - 1998. Audio U-tube



    It's amazing people have completely forgot the 8 years of Clinton/Gore telling the world, on almost a daily basis, that Saddam had WMDs. Completely amazing. Talk about having your head buried in the sand. Again, I will repeat... I have to be one of the only persons left on this planet who has actually retained a memory of the past.











    and here's the classic...




    Last edited by js; 10-12-2008 at 11:38 PM.
    "bing bang boom! hair out...hamburger time" - William Murderface

  11. #31
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    No js, you aren't the only one that remembers. But the mainstream media has buried such footage to perpetuate the myth that GW and the evil and omni powerful Dick Cheney are the only ones to blame. But to keep it simple and with fewer words, Cheney is dropped. That way, the mindless hordes of liberal sheeple can remember the four words to the liberal battle cry: Bush lied - people died.

    But the real problem here is the impotence of facts as they pertain to most liberals. See most people are empowered by facts. Facts are kinda like Superman. But liberal spin and revisionism is like kryptonite. And Superman is no match for kryptonite.

    Most liberals already have their minds made up about things. They don't like to be bothered or confused with facts.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by James NM View Post
    ...Most liberals already have their minds made up about things. They don't like to be bothered or confused with facts.
    Please change the word "Liberals" in that sentence to "people," and I'll agree with you completely.
    Willful ignorance and stubborn stupidity are not solely Liberal traits.

  13. #33
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    the tip of the iceberg has just been seen
    most of us have not felt it yet
    get ready for a real cold 5 years to recover

    i am thinking the DJIA will bottom at 7,000

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Please change the word "Liberals" in that sentence to "people," and I'll agree with you completely.
    Willful ignorance and stubborn stupidity are not solely Liberal traits.
    Dang Steve, I already toned it down when I said "most liberals". I originally just said "liberals", but decided to leave some of our more enlightened or open minded liberals an "out".

    Wait, is "open minded liberal" an oxymoron?

    Anyways, if I listen to you I'm afraid you'll water down my posts to where it'll be just like "bla bla bla". Where would be the fun in that?

    But you are right of course. Liberals don't have an exclusive paten on being closed minded. They have just perfected it to an art form. How else could you explain Barack Obama?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by James NM View Post
    ...is "open minded liberal" an oxymoron?...
    Funny you should ask...
    I was just having that very same conversation with a friend I've known for more than 40 years (we met in college).
    He remembered that his father had taught him that a "Liberal" was a person with a mind that was open to new ideas. I remember that my own parents told me essentially the same thing.
    My, how definitions, and attitudes, change!

    I would blame it on the '60s and '70s, and recreational drugs, but I was indulging myself in that way at that time, and it didn't close my mind.
    After a lot of thought, I have come to the conclusion that recreational-drug use was only one of the symptoms of the problem that caused the closed minds of the Hippie generation. I believe that the real cause is the normal convinced egocentrism and self-indulgence of 'teen-age, without the moderating influence of parental discipline and control.
    Parents of the Hippie generation's kids were, for the most part, WW2 survivors who had pledged themselves to give their children a better life in a better world. It is our great misfortune that the "better life" was seen as an unfettered and uncontrolled one, and that the "better world" was the one their kids were going to create in that condition of absolute freedom.
    What a mistake!

  16. #36
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    Well if you go purely by these definitions then I'm a liberal:

    Favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.

    Favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.

    Of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.

    Free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.

    Open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.

    But if you just go by this - http://www.conservapedia.com/Liberal - then I am not. I agree with some of those.....but disagree with many.

  17. #37
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    I guess, Fred, that we have to remember the difference between a "liberal" and a "Liberal."
    The dictionary definitions you found fit "liberal." It's a term describing a particular philosophy and outlook.
    The definitions on Conservapedia fit "Liberal." It's a term that describes a political position, usually one that's set in concrete.
    Now, maybe, we should also look at "Conservative."

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    It's amazing people have completely forgot the 8 years of Clinton/Gore telling the world, on almost a daily basis, that Saddam had WMDs. Completely amazing. Talk about having your head buried in the sand. Again, I will repeat... I have to be one of the only persons left on this planet who has actually retained a memory of the past.
    Alright, I've been working almost nonstop since Saturday, so I'm not as sharp right now as I should be. Please help me out with this.


    Are you saying that:

    1. Clinton's air strikes on Iraq based on (as of yet in this thread) undisputed evidence that Saddam was attempting to construct WMDs and biological weapons is the equivalent of Bush's 6+ year ground war that was based on shaky evidence of existing weapons stockpiles and laboratories (both mobile and fixed) that haven't been found even though we turned the country inside out looking for said weapons and labs?

    2. Clinton the draft dodger did something correct militarily?

    3. All that "Wag the Dog" talk coming form the Republican right during the last part of the 90's was incorrect and uncalled for, and that it was just a coincidence that Bill's Monica Lewinsky "troubles" happened to coincide with a truly dangerous escalation of Saddam's power?



    I think "normal" is now on extended hiatus.

  19. #39
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev74 View Post
    Alright, I've been working almost nonstop since Saturday, so I'm not as sharp right now as I should be. Please help me out with this.


    Are you saying that:

    1. Clinton's air strikes on Iraq based on (as of yet in this thread) undisputed evidence that Saddam was attempting to construct WMDs and biological weapons is the equivalent of Bush's 6+ year ground war that was based on shaky evidence of existing weapons stockpiles and laboratories (both mobile and fixed) that haven't been found even though we turned the country inside out looking for said weapons and labs?

    2. Clinton the draft dodger did something correct militarily?

    3. All that "Wag the Dog" talk coming form the Republican right during the last part of the 90's was incorrect and uncalled for, and that it was just a coincidence that Bill's Monica Lewinsky "troubles" happened to coincide with a truly dangerous escalation of Saddam's power?



    I think "normal" is now on extended hiatus.
    I'll just make it simple...

    Bill Clinton & Al Gore (including all Democrat leadership) said for 8 years that Saddam Hussein was a threat to the United States...and that Saddam Hussein had WMDs and would use them...as he already had before. Clinton bombed Iraq almost weekly...via "no fly zones"

    George Bush II & Dick Cheney said for 2 years that...Hussein was a threat to the United States...and that Saddam Hussein had WMDs and would use them...as he already had before. (now insert 3,000 dead Americans from 9/11) Now a threat from Saddam, a threat that 2 administrations said was real... Bush acted on the threat using the same intelligence from the 8 years before he was president.

    Me personally, I strongly supported invading Iraq... because of the pure shit that Clinton & Gore filled my head with, not from anything the Bush administration said.

    Our war footing with Iraq began in 1992... not 2002.


    you really need to watch the video below... it shows the true colors of Democrats. It's a shame... It's also a shame that 95% of Democrats today are just as stupid. Of course, they support someone like Obama... that just says it all. Democrats support killing terrorist and their supporters, yet they will put someone in the white house with direct ties (personal and business) to a domestic terrorist and who is today.... proud to admit it. Pure hypocrisy...
    \
    Last edited by js; 10-15-2008 at 01:19 AM.
    "bing bang boom! hair out...hamburger time" - William Murderface

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