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  1. #1
    gmaske's Avatar
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    Exclamation Hard Core Politics!

    Ok, this is a bit over the top in places BUT it does have some issues that need to be answered. The dots that are connected here are pretty scary in my opinion.
    http://youtube.com:80/watch?v=zUdjhKbImwE

  2. #2
    Old Padawan's Avatar
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    A bit long, but not bad. Obama bad. McCain good.
    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

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    tony pasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Padawan View Post
    A bit long, but not bad. Obama bad. McCain good.
    Obama bad, McCain "not As" bad

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    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    About the only things directly about Obama in the video are that he doesn't wear a flag pin and didn't put his hand over his heart during the national anthem on at least one occasion. Everything else is about Rev. Wright, Michelle Obama, Obama's father, James Cone, campaign volunteers, Che Guevara, etc. In other words, people who aren't Barack Obama.

    I don't wear a flag pin, either. Am I unpatriotic?

    Every time I go to a Diamondbacks game, I see hundreds of people who don't put their hands over their hearts, or even remove their hats, during the national anthem. Are they all communist sympathizers waiting for a Che-style revolution in America?

    I don't like Barack Obama a bit, but I think it would be more profitable to discuss the more issues at hand: the War on Terrorism, Iraq, American civil liberties, the economy, dependence on foreign oil, gas prices, future Supreme Court appointments, etc. I'd rather know what the candidate Barack Obama thinks about these things versus learning about Obama's tenuous connections to a bunch of people who aren't running for office.
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  5. #5
    gmaske's Avatar
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    Mike
    Like I said, it's a bit over the top. The trueth of the matter is we don't really know squat about the man. I will say this....He has some really unusual friends with less than steller backgrounds. That infoslammer is nothing more than a hatchet job but the problem is there isn't anything out there to prove it wrong neither.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post

    Every time I go to a Diamondbacks game, I see hundreds of people who don't put their hands over their hearts, or even remove their hats, during the national anthem. Are they all communist sympathizers waiting for a Che-style revolution in America?
    Just took a Mass handgun safety class to get a mass non resident permit. The instructor had us stand and say the pledge of alegiance. @ of us wore hats, The instrucotr and me. I took mine off to say it. Sorry boys thats what i was taught.
    I think you have a good point there Mike. The action may anger some, but learn more. How many of us ALWAYS remove hats, hold hand over heart or what else?

    The psuedo patriotism i see bothers me more than someones free expression. The whole -" you must believe my version of what is meet and right" is another form of socialism, top down kind.
    Last edited by niadhf; 05-13-2008 at 06:50 PM.

  7. #7
    gmaske's Avatar
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    You know I was thinking about some of the stuff around Obama and I just don't like it. I grew up in the South durring the late 50's to 70's. The Black Ethic's, or whatever they call it, that he sat and listened to in Church for close to twenty years is pretty scary. It is exactly the same kind of crap that the KKK taught only the color of skin has changed. I am sorry but you can't sit in a church for that long and listen to that and say you are not effected by it. There is a lot I could go in to here about God and Faith but I'll just leave it with this.
    "The God I know wouldn't be very happy with what Mr. Wright has been preaching."

    Anyway you slice the pie this guy is an ultra radical playing the part of a moderate. He has some very good handlers that have tried to portray him as the "everymans candidate" while staying away from any real issues as much as possible. He has only addressed them when cornered and for the most part he has been proven to be a total light weight with no real understanding of much of anything.
    I have nothing aginst the man's color period. Give me a J.C. Watts or a Condie Rice and I'll pull the leaver in a heartbeat.

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    I'm going to get myself a flag pin and yellow ribbon magnet that are just a bit bigger than average. Then if anyone gives me crap about anything, I'll question their patriotism and ask why they won't support our troops as I smugly gesture to my larger flag pin and larger yellow ribbon magnet.


  9. #9
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    I have an American flag flying freely in the wind on my front porch... Not because I'm not trying to impress or be "patriotic". I could care less what anyone thinks. My reasons are simple... It makes "ME" feel good when I see it. It symbolizes something I love very much and something that I'm extremely proud of.

    As for Obama not wearing a flag label or putting his hand over his heart while the National Anthem is playing. If you're running for the highest seat in the country and running to be the most powerful leader of the free world. Put the goddamn pin on and put your hand over your heart and be proud of the country you want to lead. I guess we should also have our military stop saluting as well... Hell, let's just drop all of our traditions. Oh that's right...we are, the pussication of America proudly marches on...

    "bing bang boom! hair out...hamburger time" - William Murderface

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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    I have an American flag flying freely in the wind on my front porch... Not because I'm not trying to impress or be "patriotic". I could care less what anyone thinks. My reasons are simple... It makes "ME" feel good when I see it. It symbolizes something I love very much and something that I'm extremely proud of.
    And there, JS, is the one and only reason to do so. Because it is you. it is who you are and it means something (different for us all you know) to YOU. Exactly what i was saying.

    As for the rest, well, i hate hypocrits in any form, so i guess that rules out all politicians.

  11. #11
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    Frankly, the only issues that matter to me in the upcoming election are:

    The prosperity of the American people (ie. economy, infrastructure,etc)
    Enforcing existing laws (ie. constitution, bill of rights, violent crime, etc)
    Securing the Sovereignty of the United States (ie. national security, terrorism, Iraq, illegal immigration, etc)

    I couldn't give a shit if my President is some kind of albino, homosexual, athiest, serial adulterer, pathological liar, if the only thing he does in office is fix these three issues for the better.

    The fact that both the candidates and the media focus on everything else except these three important issues treats the American public like a pack of illiterate baboons. And to the extent we allow the media to manipulate our decisions with these trivial issues may prove them right.

    I would rather know who the candidates have selected for their cabinet and have in mind for the next round of supreme court appointees. These decisions more than anything else will influence their ability to get the job of President done than if the valet that dresses them remembers to put in a flag pin.

  12. #12
    gmaske's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm......Most of yall are smarter than you look

  13. #13
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    If you're running for the highest seat in the country and running to be the most powerful leader of the free world. Put the goddamn pin on and put your hand over your heart and be proud of the country you want to lead. I guess we should also have our military stop saluting as well... Hell, let's just drop all of our traditions. Oh that's right...we are, the pussication of America proudly marches on...
    I think you can be proud of America without doing those things. The flag pin "tradition" seems to have vastly accelerated after 9/11, but has dropped off considerably since. Many Republicans don't wear it, or wear it only occasionally, as well. When Nancy Reagan endorsed John McCain, neither was wearing a flag pin, but I don't think we can accuse either of them of being unpatriotic. Here's an older article about flag pins, written well before the Obama controversy: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/03/fa...gewanted=print

    Here are some other pics of Obama with hand over heart during the Pledge of Allegiance: http://mediamatters.org/items/200710240006?f=h_latest. I realize this isn't the national anthem, but as I mentioned, I see normal people without hand-over-heart at sporting events all the time.

    Military saluting is a matter of discipline and respect in a shame-based culture with a hierarchal command structure. I don't really see how this relates to American civilians freely choosing their civic leaders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    Everything else is about Rev. Wright, Michelle Obama, Obama's father, James Cone, campaign volunteers, Che Guevara, etc. In other words, people who aren't Barack Obama
    If someone attends a church for 20 years, a church in which the pastor preaches that the "United States of KKK" introduced the AIDs virus as a method to kill black people, I'd have to go ahead and say Obama must have believed in something he said. Becoming a president is more than just about you, it is about the people that you surround yourself with. You have to admit, Obama has surrounded himself with some pretty unpopular people.

    Hypothetically, if I was best buds with (the new deceased) Jeffrey Dahmer, chances that would be a relationship that would minimize my chances of being elected into public office. Relationships define who you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosquito View Post
    If someone attends a church for 20 years, a church in which the pastor preaches that the "United States of KKK" introduced the AIDs virus as a method to kill black people, I'd have to go ahead and say Obama must have believed in something he said.
    How about going to church because you believe in God? I'll probably bet they read the Bible in that church too.

    If you spend as much time on this planet as many of us do, you will eventually collect friends who do stupid shit. Does the fact you have a long standing friend who cheats on his wife make you an adulterer too?

    I don't happen to like Obama, but that doesn't mean I like mud slinging either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosquito View Post
    Becoming a president is more than just about you, it is about the people that you surround yourself with. You have to admit, Obama has surrounded himself with some pretty unpopular people.
    The only associates that matter are the ones you pick for cabinet positions and the supreme court.

    G.H.Bush lied to the Senate inquiry in his testimony regarding Iran-Contra as head of CIA. G.H.Bush is financially tied to the Bin Laden family through the Carlyle Group. Prescott Bush (GW's grandfather) had his assets siezed for his financial support of Germany's Nazi party. 'Associations' with Ayahtollah, Bin Ladens and Hitler haven't hurt Dubya's election to 2 terms as Prez.

    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    The fact that both the candidates and the media focus on everything else except these three important issues [Economy, Law Enforcement, National Security] treats the American public like a pack of illiterate baboons. And to the extent we allow the media to manipulate our decisions with these trivial issues may prove them right.

  16. #16
    guimoman is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post

    Um.... G.H.Bush lied to the Senate inquiry in his testimony regarding Iran-Contra as head of CIA. G.H.Bush is financially tied to the Bin Laden family through the Carlyle Group. Prescott Bush (GW's grandfather) had his assets siezed for his financial support of Germany's Nazi party. 'Associations' with Ayahtollah, Bin Ladens and Hitler haven't hurt Dubya's election to 2 terms as Prez.
    Oh man... that isn't even the tip of iceberg when it comes to the BUsh family questionable ties and even more unethical behaviors. This is partly why I get upset with people who somehow support both our troops and the president at the same time. If we look beyond the superficial political pandering and the medial portrayal of e verything we can rationalize that Bush and his cabinet have done irrepreable harm to our nation as well as our soldiers in combat. That being said I could never support a candidate like McCain. I love his environmental views (because I'm an environmentalist) but his wartime strategies and outlines are the same bullshit Bush had, just a little bit better. But when a man thinks it's possible to wage war and repair the economy at the same time, post-industrial revolution, then that man is unfit to be president by a long shot!

    How can we possible continue fighting and repair the economy??? It's mathematically impossible. We are already in debt to China for about a third of our deficit... A THIRD! I understand that alot of people feel it is imperative to fight the middle eastern terrorist scum to protect our homeland etc etc... But if we continue this much longer then it won't matter how many of them we actually kill, conquer, convert, liberate... because in the end all it takes is ONE PERSON to cause massive devastation. ONE person crossing through an increadibly unprotected Canadian border, and legally purchasing the materials needed to make a fertilizer bomb big enough to level a skscraper. ONE! So if you decide to vote for McCain because you like his views on the war against terror, then remind yourselves that homeland security means HOME-LAND NOT Middle east land. All those funds and troops could be used to boost the education sector that in turn will increase the amount of brilliant engineers and scientist that create ALL the techonolgy necesary to track down and eliminate targets of interest. Nukes, HPE's, IED's, Terror cells, etc. And the troops could be home safetly with their families whil they patrol the canadian border and sea ports nationally. Doing that will almost guarantee economical stability and improved national security.

    Why do people support the idealogy of continuing this war? I mean... can't we see that it's only harming us more then it is benefitting us? Why are we sacrificing innocent peoples lives, their families lives? How can you look into your childs eyes and say "sorry son, but I'm going to risk your entire future well being and happiness for this (insert, oil, business, war, "freedom", etc). Now you may live in poverty, you may live in a toxic hell, you may live in a country whose power will be akin to that of a 2nd world country in 30 years, hell you may even DIE, but don't worry son it's all for the best."

  17. #17
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guimoman View Post
    "sorry son, but I'm going to risk your entire future well being and happiness for this (insert, oil, business, war, "freedom", etc). Now you may live in poverty, you may live in a toxic hell, you may live in a country whose power will be akin to that of a 2nd world country in 30 years, hell you may even DIE, but don't worry son it's all for the best."
    Well, I've actually been there and had that conversation with my daughter when I was ordered to Afghanistan. What I said was, "Hannah, I have to go do this so that you, your mother, and your friends can have a chance at a better world. A world where you don't have to live in fear of leaping to your death out of a burning skyscraper, like in New York. A world where you don't have to worry about rockets landing in your neighborhood or being blown up in the supermarket, like in Israel. I don't know that my doing this will help - only history will judge that - but I have to try."

    You don't know Jack about poverty and pollution until you've been to a place like Afghanistan. There just isn't even any kind of comparison to America. All this negativity from both sides is silly. Does America have her problems? Yes, of course, just like everything else created and run by human beings. But mostly people on both sides just bitch and complain and don't do anything to change things for the better.
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  18. #18
    submoa is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by guimoman View Post
    Why do people support the idealogy of continuing this war?
    Lets be clear:

    Osama Bin Laden and his band of Al Quaeda thugs were responsible for 9/11. They were housed and supported in Afghanistan by the Taliban government. Absolutely, positively it is imperative that our forces are in Afghanistan. Unfortunately, the bad guys have moved to Pakistan.

    I would love to see Bin Laden's head on a spike and the assets of those supporting him siezed by the US Govt.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    How about going to church because you believe in God? I'll probably bet they read the Bible in that church too.

    If you spend as much time on this planet as many of us do, you will eventually collect friends who do stupid shit. Does the fact you have a long standing friend who cheats on his wife make you an adulterer too?

    I don't happen to like Obama, but that doesn't mean I like mud slinging either.
    There are thousands of churches all across America. He happened to attend the same church for 20 years, the church with a pastor that is completely out of line with the majority of Christian churches in America. There is a big difference from having a stupid friend to having a friend that:
    a) Denies the Holocaust
    b) Is convinced that the US Gov't created AIDs
    c) Claims all problems in the African American community are brought upon by "white men"


    If you don't like mudslinging, I'd lay low until after the election, because it isn't going to stop. But John McCain is to old to be pres right?

  20. #20
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosquito View Post
    But John McCain is to old to be pres right?
    He may not be too old, but he's way too much of an authoritarian. No way in hell will he ever get my vote.
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