Thread: Must see movie!!!

Why???

Synopsizes CNS News:

“Expelled” calls attention to the plight of highly credentialed scholars who have been forced out of prestigious academic positions because they proposed Intelligent Design as a possible alternative to Charles Darwin’s 150-year-old theories about the origins of life. Instead of entertaining a debate on the merits of competing theories, the scientific establishment has moved to suppress the ID movement in a “systematic and ruthless” way at odds with America’s founding principles, the film asserts.

Liberals have been going ape about “Expelled” for months as it has been screened around the country.

If liberials hate it then it must be good.

OK now I got to see this. I'll be honest I pay no attention to what comes out of Hollyweird and haven't for years. I see one movie about every two years and that's with my grand daughter.

Both sides are doing the same thing to the other. At least extremists on it. They both want both sides done away with. I'll be honest, I don't care if they teach both. And I'll probably be trout slapped, but I do fall along the Darwinian lines. If they want to teach both and let people choose, that's cool.

Originally Posted by SuckLead

Both sides are doing the same thing to the other. At least extremists on it. They both want both sides done away with. I'll be honest, I don't care if they teach both. And I'll probably be trout slapped, but I do fall along the Darwinian lines. If they want to teach both and let people choose, that's cool.

Though I'm a creationist I'm ok, sorta, with teaching both sides. The problem is that both sides are not taught equally because of the separation of church and state that some say exist in the constitution but is not there.

Originally Posted by tnoisaw

Synopsizes CNS News:
...plight of highly credentialed scholars who have been forced out of prestigious academic positions because they proposed Intelligent Design as a possible alternative..."

Highly credentialed by the University of Offshore Correspondence courses?
Sounds like they're in need of some remedial Biology classes...

Originally Posted by tnoisaw

because of the separation of church and state that some say exist in the constitution but is not there.

Errrr, it's right there in the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

In other words, the government keeps its hands off religion, neither pushing it nor prohibiting it. Since Creationism and Intelligent Design posit a supernatural being as the maker of all things, they are clearly religious. Since we're mainly talking about public schools, I think there's room for debate about teaching ID as an alternative to widely-accepted science. I honestly do not know how specific ID is in terms of suggesting a specific god made everything, so I don't know that it can be termed "a" religion. But it is clearly a religious belief system.

I briefly listened to Sean Hannity try to explain his belief in Creationism/ID yesterday. He made no scientific sense, and just railed on about totally subjective things like beauty of sunsets and the ocean.

But then again, I'm one of those evil atheists that Ben Stein warned you about.

Originally Posted by Mike Barham

Errrr, it's right there in the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

In other words, the government keeps its hands off religion, neither pushing it nor prohibiting it. Since Creationism and Intelligent Design posit a supernatural being as the maker of all things, they are clearly religious. Since we're mainly talking about public schools, I think there's room for debate about teaching ID as an alternative to widely-accepted science. I honestly do not know how specific ID is in terms of suggesting a specific god made everything, so I don't know that it can be termed "a" religion. But it is clearly a religious belief system.

I briefly listened to Sean Hannity try to explain his belief in Creationism/ID yesterday. He made no scientific sense, and just railed on about totally subjective things like beauty of sunsets and the ocean.

But then again, I'm one of those evil atheists that Ben Stein warned you about.

If you take your first amendment argument then, “prohibiting the free exercise thereof” means that I am being prohibited from practicing my religion in a public school. The idea behind the first is that they (founding fathers) didn’t want the government dictating what or who you could worship as happened to them in England by whom ever was King and what ever religion he was. It was not the prevention of as it is heading today.

Originally Posted by SuckLead

.... And I'll probably be trout slapped, ...

Thanks for the image.
(in general that is, not person specific)

Originally Posted by tnoisaw

If you take your first amendment argument then, “prohibiting the free exercise thereof” means that I am being prohibited from practicing my religion in a public school. The idea behind the first is that they (founding fathers) didn’t want the government dictating what or who you could worship as happened to them in England by whom ever was King and what ever religion he was. It was not the prevention of as it is heading today.

It really is a catch-22. I agree, you would, in a public school, be somewhat denied the right to practice your religion in this way. However, by teaching ID you open the flood gates to teaching every religion's version of the begining of time, otherwise it is unfair to them, also, according to that arguement. I am speaking as a Christian with a Christian education. I was taught both, but will admit that even in Christian schools, they spent more time on Darwin, which amazed me in some way. Public schools were set up to supply education regardless of religion, while religion backed schools obviously focus on religion. So pretty much, if you cover one in a public school, you have to cover them all.

Mike,

Wanna join my Darwinist Libertarian Party?

Damn, I knew I liked you...

It's funny how the ID crowd cannot believe that one species, man, could evolve into what it is, while others have just languished... And yet the whole basis of evolution is not RANDOM evolution at all, but evolution through survival of the most evolved random offspring. Therefore, random "improvements" survive, and random "deficiencies" perish. If you get lucky 3 or 4 times instead of once, your species VAULTS ahead when the math is done... Man has also simply been the first species to implement rudimentary technology. Technology bread greater technology... and we've seen what technology (nutrition, medicine, etc) has done to evolution... How tall are your children compared to your grand parents??? Is "God" making our children taller each generation? Is "God" putting laptops into the elementary schools?

Good night all...

JeffWard - Shaved Ape...

JeffWard

Originally Posted by JeffWard

Mike,

Wanna join my Darwinist Libertarian Party?

Damn, I knew I liked you...

It's funny how the ID crowd cannot believe that one species, man, could evolve into what it is, while others have just languished... And yet the whole basis of evolution is not RANDOM evolution at all, but evolution through survival of the most evolved random offspring. Therefore, random "improvements" survive, and random "deficiencies" perish. If you get lucky 3 or 4 times instead of once, your species VAULTS ahead when the math is done... Man has also simply been the first species to implement rudimentary technology. Technology bread greater technology... and we've seen what technology (nutrition, medicine, etc) has done to evolution... How tall are your children compared to your grand parents??? Is "God" making our children taller each generation? Is "God" putting laptops into the elementary schools?

Good night all...

JeffWard - Shaved Ape...

JeffWard

Comparing your kids height to your grandparents is not evolution that’s the advancement of health, ie. nutrition et. When kids start consistently spouting another arm or gills or something like that then I may concede that evolution exists.

What I have a hard time with is the beginning of it all. With me, as a Christian, it’s easy: God created it all. I think evolutionist have much more faith than any creationist because they believe that something started from nothing. That’s faith! Nothing plus nothing is...nothing.

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that evolution theory and creationism aren't mutually exclusive? If there is a God, he could, and probably is smart enough to, allow us to evolve to best live in our current environment.

If religion is to be taught, all religion has to be taught. Your child will be taught Christianity, Wicca, Judaism, Islam, Satanism, Asatru, Hinduism, Cabala, Scientology,. Those are just off the top of my head. No religion can be excluded.

Originally Posted by PanaDP

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that evolution theory and creationism aren't mutually exclusive? If there is a God, he could, and probably is smart enough to, allow us to evolve to best live in our current environment.

Bingo!

I am not super religious, but I do believe there is a God, and I believe He created man and the creatures. I have a hard time believing that human beings and animals, as complex as we/they are, are a random mutation staring off from some one celled creature. I do however believe that creatures have evolved from the original design to best live in their environments.

Originally Posted by PanaDP

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that evolution theory and creationism aren't mutually exclusive? If there is a God, he could, and probably is smart enough to, allow us to evolve to best live in our current environment.

or maybe give us a nudge in the right direction every few million years.

IMO they have no business teaching ID (or any other religous basis creationism) in a science class. Bring it up in a religous class where it belongs.

I think the problem lies in when they teach Darwinism as the one and only option instead of a possible option.

Originally Posted by Todd

I think the problem lies in when they teach Darwinism as the one and only option instead of a possible option.

Well, it is by far the most commonly-accepted explanation of human existence in the scientific community. Actual scientists who support the notion of ID are very few and far between, though apparently Ben Stein has dug up a few. I haven't seen the movie, however, so I don't know their credentials or background. My general opinion is that ID advocates have gotten it backwards, and are trying to rationalize their religious beliefs rather than seek the truth by scientific means.

Originally Posted by JeffWard

Wanna join my Darwinist Libertarian Party?

Yes, but the first meeting I'll be able to attend will be in Orlando in 2009. I assume there is beer at DLP meetings...?

Jeff, I want a picture of Mike shooting your XD.

-Jeff-

Intelligent Design could be taught in certain types of courses......comparative religion......philosophy....etc.....but; It cannot be taught in a science class.....period.

It's not science. It makes no predictions and it is not falsifiable. Both of those conditions MUST be met in order to Qualify as science.

You are free to believe it if you want......but you can't teach it in a science class.

That movie is a travesty beyond my ability to communicate it......Ben has fallen off his rocker.

Originally Posted by PanaDP

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that evolution theory and creationism aren't mutually exclusive? If there is a God, he could, and probably is smart enough to, allow us to evolve to best live in our current environment.

Well......yes and no.

One is based on scientific evidence and the other is based on faith.

While it is certainly true there may be a God and that He/She/It could be responsible for creating the mechanisms for evolution, there is simply no way to prove that in a scientific manner. Again, one is science the other is faith; might not make them mutually exclusive, but there is also no way to combine them, at least not in a science class.

Originally Posted by Fred40

Intelligent Design could be taught in certain types of courses......comparative religion......philosophy....etc.....but; It cannot be taught in a science class.....period.

It's not science. It makes no predictions and it is not falsifiable. Both of those conditions MUST be met in order to Qualify as science.

You are free to believe it if you want......but you can't teach it in a science class.

That movie is a travesty beyond my ability to communicate it......Ben has fallen off his rocker.

Well said!