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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post

    With that logic, should we judge all catholics by the actions of the IRA and quotes taken from some Irish Priests?
    It's not my logic... It's an estimate from terrorism experts who know a little more about the issue than little ole' me.


    Al Quaida, Taliban, Saudi Royal Family
    and what is the one thing that binds them all together...?
    "bing bang boom! hair out...hamburger time" - William Murderface

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post



    How about an example of Pro-US muslims?

    Kurds are muslim. Kurdish Peshmurga militia fought alongside coalition forces againt Saddam in Gulf War II. Kurdistan-Iraq (n.Iraq) is pro-US . After centuries of persecution by Jordanians, Syrians and Iranians, the Kurds have been doing well in keeping insurgents in line in their area. In fact, less than 100 US troops are officially stationed in Kurd regions.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2486679.shtml

    Shortly after Gulf War I, hoping to get US support, there was a popular uprising of Iraqi Kurds against Saddam. Saddam gassed them for their trouble.
    There is no denying that... But, it sure would be nice if the other 99.99999999998% would step up to the plate as well.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    There is no denying that... But, it sure would be nice if the other 99.99999999998% would step up to the plate as well.
    +1

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    and what is the one thing that binds them all together...?
    Al Quaida is a unified terroist cabal funded by Wahhibist Saudis.
    Taliban are a Pashtun nationalist party comprised mainly of graduates of Madrasah schools funded by Wahhibist Saudis.
    Saudi Royal Family support Wahhibism politically and financially.

    The one thing that binds them all together is US dollars paid to the Saudi Royal Family for oil.


    http://www.hermes-press.com/BushSaud.htm
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1211-05.htm

    Trying to say that it is Islam binds them together is as relevant as saying Branch Davidians and Born Again Christians are unified by their Christianity.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    There is no denying that... But, it sure would be nice if the other 99.99999999998% would step up to the plate as well.
    The majority of Malaysia is moslem and Islam is the official religion. Since independence, Malaysia has been fighting an ongoing guerrilla war against Communist insurgents.

    Indonesia is a muslim country too. The Indonesian government has been documented in the news as working with US intelligence to wipe out the Al Quaida cells in their country.

    So lets see:

    1 million terrorist/bad guys

    5.5 million Iraqi Kurds
    25 million Malays
    235 million Indonesians

    According to your 1 billion moslem estimate, over 25% have stepped up to the plate to fight terrorism without doing much research and without including Pakistan.

  6. #46
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    I guess we can wait and give them time to grow out of it...How old is this faith again?

    Watching events around the world the last 20+ years with people burning effigies of American leaders, our Flags etc it sure looks to me like a lot of people hating us to the point that they want to demonstrate their hatred by killing stuffed likenesses of us. Just how many Americans have to die on our land as well as around the world before people say enough. How many videos will websites and newscasts with people having their heads removed in a way that is the most possible painful way, allow them to live longer while hurting. How proud are these people that wear masks to do these things then cry foul because they are hunted. Why hide in a crowd of people that "statistically" don't believe you are doing the right thing then say you are bad for having to go to every door in the land

    The rules of the game are handed down by those that start the fight. I really don't want to hear cries of foul from people that allow the problem to exist. These good Muslims need to rise up and take care of this problem that is tearing their homelands and faith apart. Their own non support for this situation causes people like myself to think that they might not be in as much a disagreement as they say.

  7. #47
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    I'll just let her explain... I'm quite sure she knows much more about what's going on with Islam than any of us on this thread.


    Wafa Sultan





    and what has happened to this brave woman... This news story was just released today. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...sh.aspx/144165
    (IsraelNN.com) Dr. Wafa Sultan has been forced to go into hiding with her family following a fatwa (religious edict) from an Islamic scholar, according to Omedia. Sultan faces the fatwa following a recent debate on Al-Jazeera in which she challenged Egyptian Islamist Talat Rheim over Dutch cartoons of Mohammed, who Muslims revere as a prophet. Sultan argued that Denmark had the right to print the cartoons.

    Sultan joins a growing list of public critics of radical Islam facing death threats. Her supporters have asked the American public to join them in writing to the embassy of Qatar, the country which sponsors Al-Jazeera, as well as to United States President George Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, asking them to defend Sultanís right to free speech and personal safety.

    I think I've made my point...

    for those who choose to keep there heads buried in the sand (no pun untended) feel free to continue.
    Last edited by js; 04-01-2008 at 12:32 AM.
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    First off, thanks cvillechopper for backing up MY religion. I am a born and raised Texan, and a muslim. I can't believe how uneducated and misinformed a lot of the nation is. This is why almost all of the world hates America.

    If you actually go and read a translated version of the Koran you will see that the way all of these extremist are acting isn't the way that we are taught to act. We are supposed to allow any religion worship god in any shape or form that they want. God said that as long as they are worshiping me in one way or another let it be.

    Should I call all Christians crazy because of what happened in Waco with David Koresh? Is that fair to all the other Christians?

    I mean get off your ass and go and read something before you start making stupid comment. You are just hurting your children by being this ignorant because you are passing that on to them.

    Out of 50% of kids from the ages 18-24 that where surveyed couldn't point out the Pacific ocean on a map. Another 50% couldn't even point out New York on a map.

    Instead of making these stupid comments on the net, why don't you and your kids go and pick up some books and get a little cultured.

    It's sad that I just registered on this forum and this is what I get greeted with.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by P89Jeeper View Post
    First off, thanks cvillechopper for backing up MY religion. I am a born and raised Texan, and a muslim. I can't believe how uneducated and misinformed a lot of the nation is. This is why almost all of the world hates America.
    Well, then start educating us... I have some questions...


    Why has Wafa Sultan gone into hiding....?

    What can you do... as a "good" muslim do to stop the radicals that have hijacked your religion?

    What is "jihad" and why has it been waged against the West...?

    When someone releases a cartoon of Mohammad, why do muslims riot, kill, burn down churches and buildings...?

    Do you, as a muslim, believe that Israel has the right to exsist...?

    What is an "Honor Killing"...?
    Last edited by js; 04-01-2008 at 12:56 AM.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    Well, then start educating us...


    Why has Wafa Sultan gone into hiding....?

    What can you do... as a "good" muslim do to stop the radicals that have hijacked your religion?

    What is "jihad" and why has it been waged against the West...?

    When someone releases a cartoon of Mohammad, why do muslims riot, kill, burn down churches and buildings...?
    Sultan isn't even a Muslim, and she is hiding because she is scared of the extremist.

    I don't know why you have to put good into quotes, but as yall stated in some post earlier on, what am I supposed to do against 1,000,000 people? I can't do anything for them, and if I could, I would disposed of them all. The only thing that can be done is try to educate the ones that will listen

    Jihad is an Islamic term, is a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, Jihad means "strive" or "struggle". Jihad appears frequently in the Qur'an and common usage as the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of Allah. A person engaged in jihad is called a mujahid, the plural is mujahideen.

    A minority among the Sunni scholars sometimes refer to this Islamic duty as the sixth pillar of Islam, though it occupies no such official status. In Twelver Shi'a Islam, however, Jihad is one of the 10 Practices of the Religion.

    According to scholar John Esposito, Jihad requires Muslims to "struggle in the way of God" or "to struggle to improve one's self and/or society." Jihad is directed against the devil's inducements, aspects of one's own self, or against a visible enemy.

    Again the cartoon thing. This is the extremist. We aren't taught to be violent people. That is again the children of ignorant people that have been taught things that have been twisted and not really in the faith.

    Of course they have a right to exsist. They are people and they have the right to worship god in anyway that they feel fit.

    There isn't a such thing as an Honor killing. Any killing is a sin.

    He is a racist, homophobic, antisemitic, so no, I don't agree with anything he says.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by P89Jeeper View Post
    ...We are supposed to allow any religion worship god in any shape or form that they want. God said that as long as they are worshiping me in one way or another let it be...
    Um, sorry, but the Koran also speaks about the unbeliever (Christian, Jew, whatever) as "dhimmi," second-class citizens who are specially taxed, have fewer civil rights, are not allowed to bear arms and, indeed, aren't even allowed to fight back against an attack on person or property by a Muslim.
    Further, the Koran commands that any religion newer than Islam, Bahai for instance, is a religion that must necessarily be apostate from Islam, and that its adherents are therefore to be either forceably converted or put to death.

    I admit that both Judaism and Christianity also have some things like these in their backgrounds, but these older religions now have matured and become more tolerant.
    We in the West are waiting, less and less patiently, for Islam to grow up too.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by P89Jeeper View Post
    This is the extremist. We aren't taught to be violent people. That is again the children of ignorant people that have been taught things that have been twisted and not really in the faith.
    The extremist seem to have the upper hand at this point.

    Of course, we say extremist views... but aren't these views a growing majority in the places like the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan...etc?

    When you say uneducated.... This is what we are seeing and hearing...

    Can you explain this...



    and can you explain this as well...



    and this one...




    also, do you agree with the Muslims in the video below... for the annihilation of Jews...?

    Last edited by js; 04-01-2008 at 01:25 AM.
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  13. #53
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    I don't support any particular religion, I do however support your right to worship as you choose and demand you respect my right to choose for myself.

    I will agree with JS that radical Islam is a problem. Where we differ is that I see radical any religion as the problem, not Islam.

    Radical Christianity is a problem too, Branch Davidians, Aryan Nations, Army of God, Christian Identity, The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA), Christian Patriots, and Lambs of Christ to name a few in the US alone. But the moment you lump these radicals together as an example of all Christians, the flaw in your logic becomes clear.

    But if it doesn't, the CSA hasn't hijacked the Baptist Church. Likewise some fatwah issuing mullah in Iran hasn't hijacked the mosque in Duluth.

    By all means hunt down terrorists who bomb, behead and maim, but don't bully the kid who wears religious adornment, if its a hijab or a skullcap.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    The extremist seem to have the upper hand at this point.

    Of course, we say extremist views... but aren't these views a growing majority in the places like the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan...etc?

    When you say uneducated.... This is what we are seeing and hearing...

    Can you explain this...

    Yes they have the upper hand. Why don't you see other Muslims standing up and condemning them for what they are saying and doing? Because they are afraid for their lives. Living here in Texas you don't see to many Muslims and when something goes wrong and we had debates in my classes I would try to explain what is going on in the real peoples views. That's not on the large scale, but what can a poor med student do, just try to educate the people around me.

    Yes those views are growing in those countries, but not by the citizens of those countries, but the people who run them. I have family in Iran that don't know half of what is going on here, or what their political leaders are saying on international news networks. Everything is hidden from them. It isn't like here where you can just get on the internet and find out what you want. They restrict things like that. They don't let anyone have a satellite so they can't get any news from other countries. And that stuff is the stuff you are seeing is because you aren't looking for the news cast that talk good about the religion, but something that is controversial.

    And as far as the dhimmi goes, that is from text that is from the 7th century. Things have changed since then. There are somethings that I do that I am not supposed to, like drink, eat pork, and have tattoos, but that's because I believe that this is a different time and place and you can't read into all the book. For example the pork thing. This was written into the Koran because the pig was a dirty animal and you could get tape worm from them. It isn't the case these days. I mean you still can get tape worm, but the chances now are very slim. Besides I need my ribs and bacon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    I don't support any particular religion, I do however support your right to worship as you choose and demand you respect my right to choose for myself.

    I will agree with JS that radical Islam is a problem. Where we differ is that I see radical any religion as the problem, not Islam.

    Radical Christianity is a problem too, Branch Davidians, Aryan Nations, Army of God, Christian Identity, The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA), Christian Patriots, and Lambs of Christ to name a few in the US alone. But the moment you lump these radicals together as an example of all Christians, the flaw in your logic becomes clear.

    But if it doesn't, the CSA hasn't hijacked the Baptist Church. Likewise some fatwah issuing mullah in Iran hasn't hijacked the mosque in Duluth.

    By all means hunt down terrorists who bomb, behead and maim, but don't bully the kid who wears religious adornment, if its a hijab or a skullcap.
    I am by no means saying that JS is wrong about the radical Muslim, but I don't like when people say Muslims or Islam and not radicals because that gives all of us bad names.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    I don't support any particular religion, I do however support your right to worship as you choose and demand you respect my right to choose for myself.

    I will agree with JS that radical Islam is a problem. Where we differ is that I see radical any religion as the problem, not Islam.

    Radical Christianity is a problem too, Branch Davidians, Aryan Nations, Army of God, Christian Identity, The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA), Christian Patriots, and Lambs of Christ to name a few in the US alone. But the moment you lump these radicals together as an example of all Christians, the flaw in your logic becomes clear.

    But if it doesn't, the CSA hasn't hijacked the Baptist Church. Likewise some fatwah issuing mullah in Iran hasn't hijacked the mosque in Duluth.

    By all means hunt down terrorists who bomb, behead and maim, but don't bully the kid who wears religious adornment, if its a hijab or a skullcap.
    +1

    I don't really consider myself a religious person... more spiritual I guess... I personally think all organized religion has major flaws and is extremely hypocritical. But anyway....

    But, I guess it really starts to boil down to this when it comes to Islam... Is the extremist view now the norm...? It seems that there are 2 Islamic views on everything...
    "bing bang boom! hair out...hamburger time" - William Murderface

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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    +1

    I don't really consider myself a religious person... more spiritual I guess... I personally think all organized religion has major flaws and is extremely hypocritical. But anyway....

    But, I guess it really starts to boil down to this when it comes to Islam... Is the extremist view now the norm...? It seems that there are 2 Islamic views on everything...
    The norm in peoples eyes nowadays, yes because that is what they see on tv all the time. In the a true Muslims eyes no.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by P89Jeeper View Post
    And as far as the dhimmi goes, that is from text that is from the 7th century. Things have changed since then. There are somethings that I do that I am not supposed to, like drink, eat pork, and have tattoos, but that's because I believe that this is a different time and place and you can't read into all the book. For example the pork thing. This was written into the Koran because the pig was a dirty animal and you could get tape worm from them. It isn't the case these days. I mean you still can get tape worm, but the chances now are very slim. Besides I need my ribs and bacon.
    What you wrote is a good example... What would a die hard religious muslim think about what you are doing...? I guess you could say... "old school" muslim...
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    Quote Originally Posted by P89Jeeper View Post
    Yes they have the upper hand. Why don't you see other Muslims standing up and condemning them for what they are saying and doing? Because they are afraid for their lives...
    All you need, to have evil in the world, is that good people do nothing.

    (I'm paraphrasing. I don't remember the actual quote.)

  20. #60
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    What about Sharia law...?
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