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  1. #1
    submoa is offline Member
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    Doctors vs. Guns

    Doctors:

    (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
    (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
    (C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

    Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services.

    Now think about this:

    Guns:

    (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. (Yes, that's 80 million..)
    (B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
    (C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188.

    Statistics courtesy of FBI

    STATISTICALLY:

    Doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
    "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."

    FACT:

    NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

    Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!

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  3. #2
    Baldy's Avatar
    Baldy is offline Senior Member
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    Tell that to a liberal and watch the blank look you get.

  4. #3
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    I think that doctors should be licensed and regulated!

    Oh, wait a minute -- they already are!

  5. #4
    hawcer's Avatar
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    Great comparison! I guess that's where "Practicing" medicine ,are the key words....

    BTW ,Accident isn't the same thing as Negligent in my book!

  6. #5
    submoa is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldy View Post
    Tell that to a liberal and watch the blank look you get.
    Nawww... They would just start a bill for an "Assault Doctors" ban.

  7. #6
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    Nawww... They would just start a bill for an "Assault Doctors" ban.
    Wouldn't that outlaw dentists?

  8. #7
    niadhf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Wouldn't that outlaw dentists?
    Nope, Just get them hired as interogaters for the CIA.

  9. #8
    James NM's Avatar
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    I'm sure you noticed that stats on lawyer malpractice were purposely omitted. Why? Out of concern for public safety.

    It was feared that the information on lawyer malfeasance would cause panic and mass hysteria, causing people to seek medical attention.

  10. #9
    Fred40 is offline Member
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    Well not to be a stick in the mud.......but let's think about this.

    Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

    Doctors see a lot of really sick and really injured people......so we would really have to define ACCIDENTAL in this case.

    Also, what about people being killed by guns ON PURPOSE?

    I don't hear of many Doctors killing people intentionally.....unless you count Dr. Kevorkian (which I wouldn't count.....I agreed with him.....in principle if not action).

    Also, how many people come in contact with a gun everyday.....vs. how many people does a Doctor see?

    Lastly: It is clear this information did NOT come from FBI statistics. In fact no one seems to know where these stats did come from........they hold no weight.....none.

  11. #10
    OJ
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    Thumbs down

    This very offensive thread/post is like the bad penny that just keeps showing up and won't go away and die the natural death it should.

    It's not funny to those of us who dedicated our lives to caring for patients and the "BS" figures are just that. Here's the best figures available -

    The IOMís release of To Err is Human brought medical errors and patient safety the attention it has long needed but never had. The information presented in the report is not new. Indeed, many studies, some as early as the 1960s, showed that patients were frequently injured by the same medical care that was intended to help them (Schimmel, 1964). While evidence of medical error has existed for some time, the report succeeded in capturing the publicís attention by revealing the magnitude of this pervasive problem and presenting it in a uniquely compelling fashion. The IOM estimates that medical errors cause between 44,000 and 98,000 deaths annually in the United States.

    This is the closest thing I could find on Health and Human services

    The IOMís release of To Err is Human brought medical errors and patient safety the attention it has long needed but never had. The information presented in the report is not new. Indeed, many studies, some as early as the 1960s, showed that patients were frequently injured by the same medical care that was intended to help them (Schimmel, 1964). While evidence of medical error has existed for some time, the report succeeded in capturing the publicís attention by revealing the magnitude of this pervasive problem and presenting it in a uniquely compelling fashion. The IOM estimates that medical errors cause between 44,000 and 98,000 deaths annually in the United States.

    Note the medical errors does not attribute all to physicians but include all from physicians to hospital personnel, pharmacists, nurses & aids and all involved in health care.

    Note also the wide spread of estimated numbers - 100% apart - ?credibility??

    It is my opinion that whenever this post comes up, that thread should be locked and deleted. It's not cute and has no place here!!

    These forums are about exchanging information about the guns we love and posting such "BS" drivel offends our doctor members needlessly. If you have a grudge against physicians, take it to the appropriate venue!!!!


  12. #11
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    To Fred40 and OJ:

    I guess you two don't understand metaphor and irony.
    The point of submoa's post is that, just as doctors aren't really bad, neither are guns.
    Nobody's going to "register" doctors because of deaths that happen when patients are in doctors' care.
    And nobody should "register" guns because of deaths that happen when they're used, either.

  13. #12
    James NM's Avatar
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    Jeez, lighten up.

    It's a jooooke! It's humor.

    Everyone is poked fun at eventually.

    Do you see mobs of rednecks following Jeff Foxworthy around with murder on the agenda?

  14. #13
    OJ
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by James NM View Post
    Jeez, lighten up.

    It's a jooooke! It's humor.

    Everyone is poked fun at eventually.

    Do you see mobs of rednecks following Jeff Foxworthy around with murder on the agenda?

    OK It's just fun to some -

    It's just that some of us really dedicated our lives to taking care of patients and worked hard to even get to be doctors and this post - word for word - keeps coming up. We worked hard to get through med school and worked hours most perople never encountered taking care of patients most would never experience.

    It's crude and stupid and should be dropped from any gun forums. It has no value to anyone and is offensive to many gun lovers who happen to be physicians also.

    The numbers are also nothing but BS. I have many patients whose cancers I cured with surgery or save lives when they were victims of trauma - and those frequently came on hollidays, weekends, or in the middle of the night.

    The post is stupid, without value, and very offensive to many of us. Stick to guns.



    .

  15. #14
    submoa is offline Member
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    The category at the top of the screen is:

    Offbeat Area Forum area for the wacky/funny topics of the day.

    Original post is a satire of gun control.

    sat∑ire /ˈsśtaɪər/
    –noun 1. the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.
    2. a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.
    3. a literary genre comprising such compositions.

    Humor vs. gun control stats don't work because the only people ever killed by humor are its authors.

  16. #15
    john doe. is offline Banned
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    I understand what the original post was about and I also understand the offense that OJ has got from it after dedicating his life to medicine. Though I believe OJ misunderstood the intent of it.

    All I can say that if it were not for modern medicine (And a lot of prayer) I would have died in January of 1985. Actually, my heart stopped three times and the ICU docs started it up again. Because of a shattered femur I developed a pulmonary embolism and a bilateral phemothorax followed. Doctors have saved my life and put pieces back together many times. I think I've paid of a few orthopedic surgeons mortgages.

    OJ, I highly doubt if the original post was meant to trash doctors. Our concern over doctors in relation to guns is that many of the liberal ones want them regulated into extinction.

    Your passion for people and their health is admirable and I for one would shake your hand and give you a big thank you.

  17. #16
    OJ
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by tnoisaw View Post
    I understand what the original post was about and I also understand the offense that OJ has got from it after dedicating his life to medicine. Though I believe OJ misunderstood the intent of it.

    All I can say that if it were not for modern medicine (And a lot of prayer) I would have died in January of 1985. Actually, my heart stopped three times and the ICU docs started it up again. Because of a shattered femur I developed a pulmonary embolism and a bilateral phemothorax followed. Doctors have saved my life and put pieces back together many times. I think I've paid of a few orthopedic surgeons mortgages.

    OJ, I highly doubt if the original post was meant to trash doctors. Our concern over doctors in relation to guns is that many of the liberal ones want them regulated into extinction.

    Your passion for people and their health is admirable and I for one would shake your hand and give you a big thank you.
    Yeah, I know and I can take a joke as well as anybody - it's just that this is about the ten thousandth time I've seen it and I suspect everyone here has seen it that many times - exactly word for word - and it really gets old after the first several hundred times.

    Hard to understand with all the liberal anti-gun doctor organizations - why anyone on a gun forum would post offensive stuff about the pro gun doctors. No matter what you do or did for a living, I doubt you'd like such stuff - especially so obviously false anyway - said about your profession.

    If you were a Marine in 1950 and were told this fuzzy faced kid was your Assistant Battalion Surgeon - would that give confidence - or just another reason to try to avoid getting wounded?



    Fortunately, he's matured some



    And shares "happy hour" stuff with friends -




  18. #17
    Wandering Man's Avatar
    Wandering Man is offline GM HGF Gold Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Nobody's going to "register" doctors because of deaths that happen when patients are in doctors' care.
    And nobody should "register" guns because of deaths that happen when they're used, either.
    Actually, we do register doctors. And all kinds of other professionals. They are licensed and have to pass licensing board exams.

    Maybe I've been brainwashed, but I value the fact that not just anyone can enter my profession, that a minimal degree of profeciency (if not spelling ability) must be shown. That improves the profession and helps maintain standards.

    By the same token, I have never resented the state requiring us to take education and profeciency tests before we are licensed to carry. I don't resent having a criminal check run before purchasing a handgun.

    Licensing boards for professionals do regulate the profession, and they do protect the public. They have never "banned" a profession.

    I read people's rants about having to be licensed to carry, and then the same people post UTube videos about other people committing crimes with illegally obtained weapons.

    I could go on, but I won't.

    Rant over.

    Thanks OJ for bringing some valid concerns.

    WM
    Never argue with drunks or crazy people.

  19. #18
    OJ
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    Thumbs up

    Thank you, Wandering Man.

    I thought it was interesting that Dr Jarvik, inventor of the artificial heart had to be legally restrained from advertising for some cholesterol lowering drug. It looked, obviously, like he was prescribing on TV by using his history and calling himself Dr. Jarvik.

    He was prohibited from further "advertising - advising" the drug because he isn't licensed (never has been) to practice medicine.

    He was evidently a better engineer/inventor than physician - having both a PhD and MD degrees - he never passed the exam to practice medicine. My suspicion is that he took the exam at least once and didn't pass - I would find it hard to believe anyone would put out the work and study needed to graduate med school and not take the licensing exam at least once.


  20. #19
    OJ
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    Deleted - Accidental Double Post

  21. #20
    OJ
    OJ is offline Junior Member
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    Talking

    QUOTE=tnoisaw;108812]I understand what the original post was about and I also understand the offense that OJ has got from it after dedicating his life to medicine. Though I believe OJ misunderstood the intent of it.

    All I can say that if it were not for modern medicine (And a lot of prayer) I would have died in January of 1985. Actually, my heart stopped three times and the ICU docs started it up again. Because of a shattered femur I developed a pulmonary embolism and a bilateral phemothorax followed. Doctors have saved my life and put pieces back together many times. I think I've paid of a few orthopedic surgeons mortgages.

    OJ, I highly doubt if the original post was meant to trash doctors. Our concern over doctors in relation to guns is that many of the liberal ones want them regulated into extinction.

    Your passion for people and their health is admirable and I for one would shake your hand and give you a big thank you.[/QUOTE]



    Thanks again for your kind post. At my age, I should have a thicker skin by now. I am well aware of the anti-gun organizations (the AMA I'm a life member of has nothing to do with medicine - it's motorcycles) as well as very anti-gun doctors. The public health ones are the worst and produce such ridiculous things as claiming "gun violence" is a virus that must be dealt with as any virus.

    A couple of years ago some local cardiologist group with a political agenda (one wanted to be elected mayor) paid one of the most rabid public health doctors to "provide" us with his pitch. Some local pro-gunners resented my not attending the talk (dunno how many days I have left but - I'm sure not going to waste any going to speeches like that). I was somewhat forgiven when I wrote the following letter to editors of our local paper.

    Editors:

    Public Health doctors tell us we should regard guns as “viruses” to be eradicated because exposure of persons to this “virus” causes them to contract the disease of “gun violence” that they are powerless to resist. Thus, guns are a public health problem.

    Viruses cause hepatitis and AIDS and having close relationships with those harboring these viruses gives one significant risk of catching those diseases. This is clearly a public health problem.

    I have had close relationships with guns for more than sixty-five years but have never felt like committing “gun violence.” My wife and I have had a close relationship for twenty years and she is not afflicted either.

    Astonishingly, public health doctors seem to have ignored the most effective tool ever devised to eradicate viruses-IMMUNIZATION. We inject a less powerful variant of viruses into persons and their bodies develop immunity to the more powerful virus. Using this principle, we could require every person to acquire a less powerful gun such as a .22 caliber single shot rifle. With time, their bodies would develop immunity so they could all safely handle and shoot more powerful guns such as handguns, semiautomatics, and even “assault rifles” without fear of developing the dreaded “gun violence” disease.

    It seems to have worked for me.

    Yours truly,



    Some people have little sense of humor -


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