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  1. #1
    MLB's Avatar
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    Dubai Construction

    If even half of the stuff in this link is truthful (and I know some of it is), than it's clear that the middle east has us by the short-n-curlys.

    http://www.dubai-architecture.info/DUB-GAL1.htm

    You know who's paying for all of that don't you... We're making weekly payments at the gas pumps. If only we could tell them to keep the greasy stuff...

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  3. #2
    john doe. is offline Banned
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    That's nucking futs!

  4. #3
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    Remember, guys, it's all built on sand.
    When that "world's tallest building" is finished, and the upper floors become occupied, it just could slo-o-o-owly tip over, and...
    Wait for it...

  5. #4
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    The UAE is our ally. There's a UAE compound right next to the camp where I live. They're decent guys.

    I don't know why anyone resents the fact that the UAE is successful. The more modern a Muslim country becomes, the more secular and less religiously fanatical it usually is (with the exception of our "friends" in Saudi Arabia).

    Anyway, it's not like anyone is making Americans buy big gas-guzzling SUVs and 10-cylinder pickup trucks. It's not like anyone but Americans are preventing us from drilling offshore or in ANWR. It's not like anyone but Americans are preventing us from building more refineries and nuclear power plants. It's not like anyone but Americans invaded Iraq, and we can see how oil prices have increased since then.

    I'm happy that the UAE is successful. It could be just another third world crapbag like Afghanistan, where people literally freeze and starve to death, making their families run right to Allah.
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  6. #5
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Mike, it's not that they're not nice guys...

    To me, it's a matter of taste. Buildings that're tall just because "we want the tallest one in the world" are merely expressions of childish hubris.
    The Empire State Building is inefficient and more expensive than necessary to run. Same for the Twin Towers and Chicago's Sears Tower.
    I could argue that New York is so crowded that a very tall building makes some economic sense, but the Emirates don't need tall buildings. They have more space than people. Their super-high structures are just for show, like their gold bathroom fixtures and marble-walled closets.
    OK, Mike, they're nice guys, but they're tasteless nice guys.

  7. #6
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    Someone gave a short presentation on Dubai while I was in college. According to the presenter people there love American culture. Natural born citizens are apparently given a sort of stipend funded by oil sales. This is a model system when compared with dictatorships like Saddam Hussein's regime. Those buildings represent prosperity; there's nothing bad about having a prosperous ally.

    Better the money is spent on buildings than on enriching uranium.

  8. #7
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    OK, Mike, they're nice guys, but they're tasteless nice guys.
    You've summed up perfectly my feelings about guys who are decked out in 5.11 clothes, Coyote Brown combat boots, Wilderness belts, and "shoot me first" vests. Taste is a subjective thing.
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  9. #8
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    Wasn't that tall structure called the Tower of Babel supposedly built in that general vicinity?



  10. #9
    john doe. is offline Banned
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    A fool builds his house on sand- a wise man builds it on rock.

  11. #10
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Yup...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    You've summed up perfectly my feelings about guys who are decked out in 5.11 clothes, Coyote Brown combat boots, Wilderness belts, and "shoot me first" vests. Taste is a subjective thing.
    Mike, we may not completely agree about the people of Dubai and the Emirates, but we definitely agree about "drugstore warriors."

  12. #11
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    I'm sure they're built on rock. Nobody spends that kind of money without doing a geotechnical report. They have talented engineers there too I'm sure.

    Mike's right about the benefits of prosperous arab countries. I suppose I shouldn't begrudge them thier fortune. I'm not so comforted about their ally status though. Not to long ago Iraq was and ally, then we invaded them, now they are an ally again.

    Being dependent on mideast oil, or any other national necessity is a major weakness. Imagine the marvels that we could do if that revenue was used to wean us from the precarious position of needing fuel from a foreign nation. Seems to me like one of the biggest "Homeland Security" issues that there is.

  13. #12
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLB View Post
    Being dependent on mideast oil, or any other national necessity is a major weakness. Imagine the marvels that we could do if that revenue was used to wean us from the precarious position of needing fuel from a foreign nation. Seems to me like one of the biggest "Homeland Security" issues that there is.
    Yes! I agree completely that we need to treat our dependence on Middle Eastern oil as the national security issue that it is. Does anyone seriously think we'd still be dicking around in Iraq if it weren't for the prospect of a collapse in the area, and even higher oil prices? But if we weigh what five years in Iraq has done to our military readiness versus what we have gained in terms of national security, it becomes rather clear that thirst for Arab/Persian oil (and not pursuing alternatives) is steadily degrading our ability to fight in the future.

    Hybrid and electric cars, nuclear/solar/wind power, drilling in ANWR and offshore...these things need to be pursued in the interests of national security. If we continue to rely on Middle Eastern oil without a plan to wean ourselves from it, we will continue to expend lives, money and equipment in wars in the deserts and mountains of places that would otherwise have zero strategic value. And we will continue to enrich the very people - like the Saudi Wahabbis - who hate us and want to kill every last one of us.
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  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    Yes! I agree completely that we need to treat our dependence on Middle Eastern oil as the national security issue that it is. Does anyone seriously think we'd still be dicking around in Iraq if it weren't for the prospect of a collapse in the area, and even higher oil prices? But if we weigh what five years in Iraq has done to our military readiness versus what we have gained in terms of national security, it becomes rather clear that thirst for Arab/Persian oil (and not pursuing alternatives) is steadily degrading our ability to fight in the future.

    Hybrid and electric cars, nuclear/solar/wind power, drilling in ANWR and offshore...these things need to be pursued in the interests of national security. If we continue to rely on Middle Eastern oil without a plan to wean ourselves from it, we will continue to expend lives, money and equipment in wars in the deserts and mountains of places that would otherwise have zero strategic value. And we will continue to enrich the very people - like the Saudi Wahabbis - who hate us and want to kill every last one of us.
    I pretty much agree. But I wish I had one of those islands! Looks real nice.

  15. #14
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    Just read an article last week on hydroelectric power from massive underwater "windmills" planted in the bottom of the Hudson river... They're having issues with durability, but with the advances in materials we make every year... And with the density of river water about 1000 times that of air, the efficiency is incredible...

    I'm looking to invest NOW in the company that is building these systems.

    This is what this country needs, not more Arab oil...

  16. #15
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    [QUOTE=JeffWard;101725]Just read an article last week on hydroelectric power from massive underwater "windmills" planted in the bottom of the Hudson river... They're having issues with durability, but with the advances in materials we make every year... And with the density of river water about 1000 times that of air, the efficiency is incredible...
    [\QUOTE]

    Jeff, Where did you read this? I would like to know more
    Thanks

  17. #16
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    You have to give them credit. They are actually doing something besides lining the pockets of a few "royals". They are creating jobs for their citizens. They appear to have the vision to actually try to develop a diversified economy to enrich the lives of their people. You could say they are doing more to reduce their future dependence on middle east oil than we are.

    And just to be clear, the main thing I like is that IMHO this sort of thing is in our own best interest. In my view, more than all the military force we can deliver or political arm twisting we can muster, nothing will eliminate extremism in the region more surely than a burgeoning middle class.
    Last edited by Wyatt; 02-21-2008 at 11:50 AM.

  18. #17
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
    In my view, more than all the military force we can deliver or political arm twisting we can muster, nothing will eliminate extremism in the region more surely than a burgeoning middle class.
    Well said, Wyatt! I agree 100%.
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