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Thread: Sig Sauers BS customer service

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    zfrme66 is offline Junior Member
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    Sig Sauers BS customer service

    Just had to write this note cause this incident really ticked me off. Recently(month ago) I bought a sig 1911,a very pricey one at that and it shoots fine. After shooting a hundred rounds through it I happened to notice that the aluminum trigger was deeply scratched on the sides. I live nearby the Sig place so I brought it down to have them look at it. Three of their techs all told me the same BS story that " Oh all the aluminum triggers do that, that's within company specs. "In fact any company that uses aluminum triggers has this same issue. Not a big thing". Well I think its a big thing when you pay $1100 for a respected gun and have to deal with this crap. What do you think?

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    desertman is online now Member
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    They are correct, they all do that where the trigger moves back and forth within the frame especially if it's a steel frame against an aluminum trigger. You can always polish the sides of the trigger and the slot inside the frame where it rides. Unfortunately dirt will get in between and the scratches will re-appear. You could also replace the trigger with an all stainless steel trigger and polish the sides as they usually come with a bead blasted matte finish. With this type of finish scratches will also show up, not so much with a mirror type finish. Another thing you could do is use some 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper and polish the sides of the trigger giving it a "brushed look" in the direction that the trigger travels. Chances are that the dirt or tool marks which are scratching the trigger will not show up as much as they will pretty much be of the same "grit" as the dirt or tool marks.
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    qwiksdraw's Avatar
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    Scratches show you actually use the gun.
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    rolandrock is offline Junior Member
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    guns that get used appear like they have been used. Bagging on SS customer service over this kinda sux.

    IMHO
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  6. #6
    rex
    rex is offline Senior Member
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    Fine scratches are completely normal but if they are deep the frame is overly rough. Look at an old 1911 with a steel trigger, the sides are worn away too but the steel doesn't scratch as deeply.

    If it bothers you buy a new trigger and fit it to the gun. Once the shoe height is fit you can fit the bow snug to the frame to minimize lateral movement. You'll still get a little rub if you sideload the trigger but you can minimize the scrubbing.

    I forgot to say it yesterday, pull the trigger and clean up the trigger shoe cut in the frame (sides, not top and bottom). Don't file it, just wrap a piece of 600 wet paper over a file or anything for a block and polish up the roughness to help minimize the marking. I also do the trigger track to make the bow slide smoother in the frame.
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    berettatoter is offline Senior Member
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    I guess that's why I don't buy 1,100 dollar handguns...I tend to scratch them up by using them too much.
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    cedarhill is offline Junior Member
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    Scratches appear on guns and it is upsetting but they do happen. I find that on 1911's scratches appear when inserting the Slide Stop Pin if it is not held correctly when putting it in. A scratch appeared on my Commander 45 and I have to be more careful next time in reassembling after cleaning.

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    Manufacturers are using light weight alloys.. they are soft.. its what aluminum does..an aluminum gun is a much better choice than a Polymer gun.. A quality aluminum and steel gun is an expensive gun.. The gun does not scratch it self in its operation , You scratch it.. if it sits in the box it wont scratch. the scratches have no effect on its function. You can remove the trigger.. and sand and polish it #1000, # 1500, #200o grit paper. to remove the scratches You put on it. May Kimber was 1600 dollars and its has a few scratches on its aluminum trigger.. its called patina... In your defense, I've heard some bad reports about Sig's customer service.. sene a few Videos of their work.. I wasn't impressed... While I do understand your feeling toward your purchase.. its just something that cant be helped.. aluminum is going to scratch.. but you can polish it out.. There are millions of people who are extremely happy with their Sig purchase.
    Bill aka ET

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    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    OK, ET...what is your rationale for stating aluminum guns are a much better choice than polymer guns? As I understand it, polymers stand up to pressure and heat better than most metals and alloys, so I would like to know why you think aluminum is a much better choice than polymer?

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    desertman is online now Member
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    GCBHM:
    Polymer frame guns are also impervious to sweat and chemicals which can quickly corrode or discolor aluminum. There is also no finish to wear, chip or flake off. Personally, I like all stainless steel guns but they are too heavy to lug around all day. Another advantage of polymer frame guns is that they are able to maintain a narrow grip frame especially on double stack semi auto's as there are no grip panels. There's got to be a reason that most law enforcement agencies are using polymer framed guns. Welcome to the modern world.

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    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    I agree, DM. I love my CZ, but I wouldn't carry it all day unless it was the only thing I had. It is a fantastic pistol! But I carry a Glock (or my new HK VP9) b/c it is light, compact and reliable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GCBHM View Post
    OK, ET...what is your rationale for stating aluminum guns are a much better choice than polymer guns? As I understand it, polymers stand up to pressure and heat better than most metals and alloys, so I would like to know why you think aluminum is a much better choice than polymer?
    It not rational. it science.. there are many great qualities of a polymer gun.. but there are a few things that jump right out, one is balance the other is something called Flexural modulus, and the other is the specific gravity of the polymer.. specific gravity has to do with its relationship to heavier than water .. Flexural modulus has much to do with degradation in key areas. I would not own a polymer gun for its lack of balance and control. Competition shooters will add barrel weight to control reaction. AS an Engineer non moving parts are great for light weight materials.. eg. a cast iron intake manifold can weigh 40 lbs.. an aluminum one can weight 30 lbs.. a Glassed filled Nylon 6/6 can weigh 15 lbs... A polymer gun is a great carry.. but you wont see too many 30 year old polymer guns shooting well. they are certainly not horrible.. just not my cup of tea.. At GM I specialized in Polymer Science design... putting products into play that are close to 1:1 specific gravity is how you can shave 550 lbs. off the weight of an automobile.. like everything is physics.. there is always a trade off.. while polymers last forever their properties do not... there are many polymers that are light weight but not UV stable.. aluminum might oxidize but it will never lose its density. The molecule strings of a polymer are in now way as tight ( close together ) as an alloy, its the reason polymers are tighter. IN product requiring strength glass in added to the resin in the manufacturing process of the resin, there are literally thousands of polymers for specific applications..

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    Quote Originally Posted by desertman View Post
    GCBHM:
    Polymer frame guns are also impervious to sweat and chemicals which can quickly corrode or discolor aluminum. There is also no finish to wear, chip or flake off. Personally, I like all stainless steel guns but they are too heavy to lug around all day. Another advantage of polymer frame guns is that they are able to maintain a narrow grip frame especially on double stack semi auto's as there are no grip panels. There's got to be a reason that most law enforcement agencies are using polymer framed guns. Welcome to the modern world.
    The reason is they are much easier to manufacture, cost to manufacture is about 1/3 the cost of an alloy gun.. the weight is a big factor when in a job situation, when an issue gun has to be comfortable all day. Those polymer guns get turned over much more regularly than a steel frame gun. there are plenty of 60 and seventy year old 1911 that are still in spec.. you wont find a polymer gun to last 60 years. I didn't come to this forum to ram my opinion down anyone's throat, or argue. I dint come here to teach or be a know it all.. IM seventy years old and I still learn every day... Like I say in the Corvette forum, I am not an expert on the 6,000 parts that go into a Corvette, But I am an absolute expert on the things I've been charged with their design or process..
    I just came here to chat a little and have fun.. IM not looking to teach anyone anything, just offer my experiences..

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    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    Well welcome to the forum, as has been extended. There certainly is no problem with sharing your thoughts and opinions. We all enjoy good natured expression and even a little debate, but at the end of the day we have to be able to substantiate our opinions, especially when putting them out there. I'm called out regularly, and when I'm wrong or misunderstood, I say so. No harm no foul. Don't take it as a personal attack. Just discuss it.

    Now I don't know the frequency at which all agencies exchange their guns, but I would dare say all agencies have standards by which they trade their guns out, and I would not think any of them have, or issue, 60 year old weapons in action. That said, these guns are turned around very quickly and sold to the civilian market and continue to serve well. Glock pistols haven't been around 60 years, but I would be willing to bet that when that time passes, their guns will still be going strong. Yes, polymer guns are less expensive, but not b/c the quality is subpar to the stainless and alloy offerings. It simply costs less to produce, and Gaston Glock was a genius to price his product accordingly. How else was he going to penetrate the already saturated and lock tight gun market? It has been proven time and time again that polymer frame guns are more durable than stainless models, and just as accurate. There is a reason that Sig, HK, S&W, CZ and Beretta all produce a polymer frame striker fire gun now. GLOCK. And "why"? B/c they work.

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    desertman is online now Member
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    GCBHM:
    At one time I wouldn't have even considered a polymer gun until I bought my first Glock G26, followed by two G30's one with rail the other without. They are just so simple to maintain with a minimum of parts. Ingenious! I recently bought three Springfields an XDS .45, an XDM .45 3.8 Compact, both bi-tones and an XD 40 Sub Compact all black. That little XDS is as flat as a pancake and it's a .45. Be great if they made that same size gun in a double stack! The Springfield's in my opinion are refined Glocks, not to disparage Glocks but they seem to be better made guns. There main drawback is that they are a bit more complicated to completely disassemble as there are more parts and small springs to contend with. Glock's on the other hand only have what makes them work, so I guess there's less to go wrong, and they are reliable. I just love the looks of those Springfields though. Heard good things about the VP9, felt great, HK quality, I almost bought one except I like the most compact guns I can find in large calibers, with the most magazine capacity for their size. I like guns with short grip frames as they allow me to use both the the flush fitting magazines and the extended or higher capacity mags of their full size brethren. I have a Beretta 92fs 9mm. Inox and a Sig 229 Equinox .40 great guns but way too bulky for their calibers. Especially when compared with the compact Glock's and Springfield's. Although bulk is not an issue in Arizona, (open carry state) I do not want anyone to know I'm armed while in public. I'm with you on the CZ's they shoot great and feel good in the hand I've got the CZ 75 Compact, PO1, PO6, and CZ 40 P. There's just something about those CZ,s that's hard not to love.

  17. #17
    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    I'm right there with ya, bro! It took years for me to warm up to the "plastic guns", but over time and study, I've come to realize that they are simpler and even more reliable than many steel guns. Not that I have thrown my steel guns out! I love the Sig P226, the 1911, BHP, and my CZ. They are all great guns!!! But to say that they are a better choice over polymer guns is just short sighted. I'm a bit surprised ET thinks that given his experience with polymers. I guess it's just a generational thing. There is nothing wrong with choosing a steel offering over the polymer. Nothing at all! But they simply are not better across the board. The thing I love about Glocks is that they just work. They have fewer working parts than any gun made. You can take parts out of them, and they still work. I consider them to be the AK of pistols. They are sleek. They are simple. They are safe, reliable and accurate. As a guy who used to turn my nose up at Glock I can tell you they have made a believer out of me. Again, this is not an assault on any other gun. I like many! I am steadily rebuilding my safe, but when it comes to EDC I know I can count on the Glock. It just works.

    I'm really, really liking this VP9. It is everything they have billed it to be, and probably more. I am going to buy the P226 MK25, a Colt 1911 Series 70 and probably the Springfield 1911 GI model. I'll probably get the CZ-75 compact and maybe the P07. I'll get anohter BHP if I can find a vintage one in mint condition, but I'll stand by my Glocks. You can't beat it. I challenge anyone to beat a Glock. Many can run with it "if you maintain it" properly, but you can abuse a Glock and it just keeps working. At one time my cousin, who is an LEO, said the training department of his agency at the time had a first generation Glock 17 that had thousands of rounds through it without being cleaned. Their intent was to shoot it until it broke. They just work.

  18. #18
    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilTwin View Post
    It not rational. it science.. there are many great qualities of a polymer gun.. but there are a few things that jump right out, one is balance the other is something called Flexural modulus, and the other is the specific gravity of the polymer.. specific gravity has to do with its relationship to heavier than water .. Flexural modulus has much to do with degradation in key areas. I would not own a polymer gun for its lack of balance and control. Competition shooters will add barrel weight to control reaction. AS an Engineer non moving parts are great for light weight materials.. eg. a cast iron intake manifold can weigh 40 lbs.. an aluminum one can weight 30 lbs.. a Glassed filled Nylon 6/6 can weigh 15 lbs... A polymer gun is a great carry.. but you wont see too many 30 year old polymer guns shooting well. they are certainly not horrible.. just not my cup of tea.. At GM I specialized in Polymer Science design... putting products into play that are close to 1:1 specific gravity is how you can shave 550 lbs. off the weight of an automobile.. like everything is physics.. there is always a trade off.. while polymers last forever their properties do not... there are many polymers that are light weight but not UV stable.. aluminum might oxidize but it will never lose its density. The molecule strings of a polymer are in now way as tight ( close together ) as an alloy, its the reason polymers are tighter. IN product requiring strength glass in added to the resin in the manufacturing process of the resin, there are literally thousands of polymers for specific applications..
    I can tell you I'm not as smart on the science end of polymers. I've read a little bit about what you're speaking to, but I am no experet. That said, I don't share your opinons on the balance and control, or lack thereof, of the polymer pistols. I can't speak to what competition shooters add or take away from their pieces, but that is not of any relevance to me as a pure defensive shooter. I do know that when I first went into the Navy we had very old 1911's on the ship, and although they had been well maintained, they were not very accurate. I submit no 30 year old pistol that has seen a lot of action is going to shoot as well as a new pistol. On those 1911s, the slides were loose, and they rattled like a jar of screws. All things wear out with use. Polymer guns are no exception to this rule. While I am impressed with your knowledge of polymers, it does not seem to translate to your knowledge of the use of polymers in firearms. I had a first generation Glock 17 that was several years old. It started giving me some problems, so I enquired about it. I was told to replace the magazine spring first, and when I did, the thing cleaned right up and ran like a top. There is a reason 65% of law enforcement in the US use Glock. There is also a reason the US military special ops use Glocks, and there is a reason that the Glock 17 is the most popular handgun in the world for military and police. It certainly isn't b/c it is a pretty gun. It's simply b/c it is cost effective, safe, reliable and accurate. I can replace my Glock 17 for less than half of what you can your 1911 compact. And I've never known any competitive shooter who took a 1911 out of the box and started competing with it. In fact, any 1911 enthusiast will tell you "well you gotta do this, adjust that, tweak this" to get them right. I've never understood that, but it is what it is. But I can take my Glock right out of the box and go to work with it as it is. And most of these quality polymer guns have a life of about 90,000 rounds. Now I don't know how long it will take you to shoot 90K, but I think that's quite a long time.

  19. #19
    desertman is online now Member
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    GCBHM:
    The secret is that you have to have a variety of guns. I have a combination of all steel, all stainless steel, aluminum frame steel slide and of course polymer. There's no question about it Glock's are great guns that just seem to work straight out of the box. There are also a lot of aftermarket parts available for them, not that they are needed but for people like me who like to tinker with their guns. I've added aluminum "Pyramid Triggers", stainless steel pins, polished the barrels, white lettering in the roll markings and added night sights to name a few. Can't help it, I've been doing mechanical work since I was 12, started with outboard motors, graduated to restoring antique cars. I can take apart and put back together damn near anything that is mechanical in nature. There's no doubt about it Glock's are without question the easiest guns to work on followed by the 1911's. I have to laugh when I see instructions that the work should only be performed by a certified Glock Armorer? I guess that's for litigation purposes. For what it's worth I doubt anyone will wear one out in their lifetime, they have undergone rigorous testing in all types of conditions and still come out on top. I'm just getting into the Springfields and watched several on line video's on their disassembly and reassembly, they are indeed more complicated but not at all that difficult for anyone who is mechanically inclined. I've already had mine apart to install stainless steel grip safeties and pins and out of curiosity to see what makes them tick. One thing I can't stand is to have to rely on other people to fix a problem or add parts. I have to have a thorough knowledge of each of my guns inside and out. As much as I love them CZ's especially the de-cocker models can be somewhat of a pain in the ass and require a slave pin in the carriage assembly in order to keep the tiny little parts in their proper order, for both disassembly and reassembly. It can be done without one but not without a lot of cursing.
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  20. #20
    GCBHM is online now Senior Member
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    Yeah, I agree. I think it is good to have a variety as well. I just think the more you know about firearms in general the better off you are as an owner. The only Springfield XD I have shot is the XDM 9mm, and it was a little thicker than I like, but the trigger was very nice. And it was accurate.

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