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  1. #1
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    The whole guide rod thing, lets keep it clean please

    Buried somewhere in this section is a thread that just turned to complete crap regarding the guide rod. In that thread though, some things were said that just didn't make any sense.

    In discussion against a full length guide rod the point was made that "since Browning didn't design it that way, it doesn't need it." I hardly believe anybody could seriously make this arguement. It is a design, like any other, no matter how good, there is always room for improvement, nothing is perfect.

    Secondly the point was made that "the full length guide rod makes the gun harder to field strip." Statements like this are also completely false. A TWO PIECE guide rod might be harder to field strip, but a simple full length guide rod is not a bit harder to strip than the traditional short one. If you don't believe that, check out Para-Ordnance, the instructions are exactly the same regardless of which guiderod you have.

    Now, being said, do I have any evidence at all to prove that a full length guide rod is any better? Absolutely not, but I have no reason to believe that it's any worse. Honestly to me it's six one, half a dozen the other and strictly a matter of personal preference.

    If you're wondering what my point is, well I'm not really sure that I have one. I'm not really arguing for one or the other, because I really just don't care. I guess if anything I posted this to try and raise awareness to a potential issue, and that is general lack of understanding. What does that mean?

    People tend to be very critical of things that they might not have a full understanding of. It's fine to have an opinion, but arguing the merits of one design over another when you are confused yourself on what the designs really are, that only leads to confusion among everybody who might be reading.

    I guess to summarize what I'm trying to say is that:

    1. There is no right or wrong answer when personal preference is concerned.
    2. There is a difference between a two piece guide rod and a full length guide rod, please be sure you know the difference before you are critical of either design.
    3. Please keep it civil. There is no reason to yell and scream, etc, etc. Whoever is the first to start criticizing the opposing person instead of the opposing viewpoint loses the argument, period.

    There is always much to be gained from civil discussion, there is nothing to be gained from pointless bickering, except of course the respect of your peers.

    Sorry for the rant, that is all

  2. #2
    nobodE is offline Junior Member
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    Hark, in the distance I hear the thud of an equine carcass being pummeled yet again.

  3. #3
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is offline HGF Forum Moderator
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    I've said it before - I prefer the full length, 2 piece guiderod. - But, I've seen people almost attacked on the 1911 forum for saying that...

  4. #4
    Mike Barham's Avatar
    Mike Barham is offline Senior Member
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    I'm anti-full-length guide rod. What, exactly, does it do that the standard guide rod doesn't? It doesn't make the gun more reliable. It doesn't make it more accurate.

    Basically, it's for appearance and "cool factor," two things that are fine in a hobby pistol. But these things don't (or shouldn't) enter into the equation on a fighting pistol.

    The only "advantage" I can think of is that the full-length guide rod puts a half-ounce or so of weight toward the muzzle, which might decrease muzzle flip, however imperceptibly.

    My opinion is that these things are just gimmicks designed to part the less-knowledgeable from their dollars.
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  5. #5
    Clyde's Avatar
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    Hello my name is Clyde and I use a full length guide rod. It Aint broke so I have not fixed it.

    I don't care for the two-peice GR because I have had one back out.

    Don't know that I would give them a cool factor rating, they do come standard on many 1911 these days.

    Granted a GR may indeed do nothing but add wieght. Why is it such an issue on a 1911 - I can't think of any semi-autos handgun with out a FGR or equivalent.

    Cheers - Celebrating Diversity

  6. #6
    Baldy's Avatar
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    I don't care if my pistol has a long or short rod. I just don't want a two peice rod and I would replace it. To me it adds another point where the pistol can fail, as pointed out by Clyde. That would not stop me from buying a pistol with a two peice rod. I would just replace it. No big deal.

  7. #7
    Dustoff '68 Guest

    Voice of reason...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham at Galco View Post
    I'm anti-full-length guide rod. What, exactly, does it do that the standard guide rod doesn't? It doesn't make the gun more reliable. It doesn't make it more accurate.

    Basically, it's for appearance and "cool factor," two things that are fine in a hobby pistol. But these things don't (or shouldn't) enter into the equation on a fighting pistol.

    The only "advantage" I can think of is that the full-length guide rod puts a half-ounce or so of weight toward the muzzle, which might decrease muzzle flip, however imperceptibly.

    My opinion is that these things are just gimmicks designed to part the less-knowledgeable from their dollars.


    ++1..There is a reason that the current, albeit, limited use, of the 1911 in the military has with it specs that include the use of the standard guide rod as JMB designed it...ease of field stripping, and reliability. There is no research data that remotely suggests the increase in reliability and ease of maintenance of a 1911 when a FLGR, 2 piece, or otherwise, is used...personally, I don't see any "cool" about it...for me, it's about as unncessary as front strap checkering, glow in the dark night sights, beavertail grip safeties, extended slide stops, gigantic extended buttons for a magazine release button,etc., ad nauseum....maybe ok for a toy, or the bling bling factor, but absolutely unnecessary in a fighting weapon. Just my dos centavos.

  8. #8
    Hal8000's Avatar
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    Doesn't really matter to me. Factory is good...

    I did replace the guide rod in a light weight Colt Officers model once to help reduce the recoil with a "Hartz" Murcury filled guide rod.
    If it reduced the recoil, it was hardly noticeable and in my opine, not worth it...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dustoff '68 View Post
    ++1..There is a reason that the current, albeit, limited use, of the 1911 in the military has with it specs that include the use of the standard guide rod as JMB designed it...ease of field stripping, and reliability.
    This is exactly the point I'm getting at, how does a full length guide rod affect reliability or field stripping in any way? A two piece certainly, but not strictly full length.

    Are you arguing against full length, or two piece?

    Not trying to attack anybody personally at all. I'm just trying to verify my thought that nobody has any real reason to dislike them other than the fact that "it's not the way it was originally designed." That's fine, but such an arguement is no more valid then "I like it because I think it looks cool."

    The best thing to do is agree to disagree and let it be because ultimately, it just doesn't matter.
    Last edited by Nathan Plemons; 08-16-2006 at 08:20 PM.

  10. #10
    Dustoff '68 Guest
    I am arguing against both....no point in a FLGR....no research data suggest it improves anything....2 piece? Well, whether it's a FLGR that's 2 piece, or a standard GR which is 2 piece (None exist), it doen't matter....my question is...what purpose, if any, does a FLGR serve....2 piece or otherwise?

  11. #11
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    There are plenty of reasons out there why a two piece guide rod is SUPPOSED to be better, and they sound really good on paper if you care to listen to thime. Now in practice are they proven to be a bit better? Probably not. BUT that's not the big issue that people complain about now is it? People complain about how it makes it more unreliable, harder to strip, etc, etc, etc. Claims that are equally as un-proven as the supposed benefits.

    I think it honestly boils down to the fact that people like to argue this for the sake of arguing, it has nothing to do with any real merit no matter what side of the issue you're on.

  12. #12
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    I've been called a liar before - but I will say my view again...

    Had a Springfield Mil spec I bought in 1997. Had a GI guide rod. Had it a while. Added a full length guide rod - and in THAT gun, I felt a difference in the feel of the gun as it fired. In THAT gun, it was smoother. I say "IN THAT GUN" because I was told I was full of U know what on one of the 1911 boards before.

    But, it did make a difference in THAT GUN. SInce then, the full length has been my preference.

    I like the 2 piece because using the allen wrench is no big deal. I don't care for the 1 piece full length - I had 1 on a Kimber before, and it was a pain in the butt w/o a bushing wrench - which I didn't have.
    Last edited by Shipwreck; 08-17-2006 at 02:40 PM.

  13. #13
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Plemons View Post
    There are plenty of reasons out there why a two piece guide rod is SUPPOSED to be better, and they sound really good on paper if you care to listen to thime. Now in practice are they proven to be a bit better? Probably not. BUT that's not the big issue that people complain about now is it? People complain about how it makes it more unreliable, harder to strip, etc, etc, etc. Claims that are equally as un-proven as the supposed benefits.
    My complaint is that it's more expensive and accomplishes absolutely nothing. It's a totally pointless change from the original design. I'm all for changing a design (or a technique, or anything else) if something new works better. But the FLGR does nothing a standard guide rod doesn't. So what's the point?

    Just because it's standard equipment on some brands doesn't mean it works better. It just means the market wants it, and those manufacturers think they can sell more guns with FLGRs than without. No doubt they are right, since the handgun market is dominated by novices. Gun manufacturers are in business to make money, nothing else.
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  14. #14
    Shipwreck's Avatar
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    I've never understood why the anti-full length guide rod guys take this issue so passionately and go for blood on it everytime

  15. #15
    Dustoff '68 Guest

    Thumbs up Thankefully....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    I've never understood why the anti-full length guide rod guys take this issue so passionately and go for blood on it everytime

    ....this is not like the other 1911 forums where self proclaimed 1911 gurus with their following of suck up sycophants, moderator's who are anything but even handed, with titles like "mentor", when in reality they only support the status quo....so far, no blood drawn here....what we have are opinions, some based on research and fact, and others simply based on preference....either way, whether you subscribe to FLGR or stick with standard ones really doesn't matter....it's what fits for you. That said, this forum is a refreshing change from the typical thin skinned, subjective, you'll get banned and a zillion points if you disagree with the mod/admin, kissing each other's butt threads that I find dominate too many gun forums.

  16. #16
    RONNIE J's Avatar
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    I don't often +1 but

    How about a ++++10,000 on this one and the dang guy likes cats and dogs too. Just look at the last beauty he picked up

    Ron

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustoff '68 View Post


    ....this is not like the other 1911 forums where self proclaimed 1911 gurus with their following of suck up sycophants, moderator's who are anything but even handed, with titles like "mentor", when in reality they only support the status quo....so far, no blood drawn here....what we have are opinions, some based on research and fact, and others simply based on preference....either way, whether you subscribe to FLGR or stick with standard ones really doesn't matter....it's what fits for you. That said, this forum is a refreshing change from the typical thin skinned, subjective, you'll get banned and a zillion points if you disagree with the mod/admin, kissing each other's butt threads that I find dominate too many gun forums.
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  17. #17
    Hal8000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dustoff '68 View Post
    That said, this forum is a refreshing change from the typical thin skinned, subjective, you'll get banned and a zillion points if you disagree with the mod/admin, kissing each other's butt threads that I find dominate too many gun forums.
    I have to agree with you completly with you on that. This place IS refreshing. I've dropped almost every other forum, partly because of that. I only have so much time to spend with my sloow speed connection. Might as well make it the best place I can....

  18. #18
    Dustoff '68 Guest

    Thanks Ronnie and Hal....

    ....better class of folk here....so far, I haven't found anyone so wrapped around the axle, he can't see the truth for what it is. It all has to do with the "leadership"....good leader, good forum....good "manager", and you have a forum top heavy with admins, mentors, moderators, "spies", sycophants, ad nauseum.

  19. #19
    Baldy's Avatar
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    Ah! Ha! Dustoff we have got you now. You Will receive 30 points, be supended 10 Days, & 50 lashes with a wet noodle. For jumping forums. Ship you take over now. Good day and Good luck.

  20. #20
    Dustoff '68 Guest

    I admit.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldy View Post
    Ah! Ha! Dustoff we have got you now. You Will receive 30 points, be supended 10 Days, & 50 lashes with a wet noodle. For jumping forums. Ship you take over now. Good day and Good luck.


    ....to nothing, your Royal "Heinous"

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