Originally Posted by sixguncowboy

I spotted a FireStorm 1911 Govt. Dlx in a local gunshop for $400. It has a high polished deep blue finish, Novak 3 dot sights, beavertail grip safety, extended safety & slide release, and diamond checkered grips. It seems to be really tight & well made. There are some good 1911s coming out of the Phillipines

I'd like to get opinions of this Phillipine made gun (not the former Spanish made FireStorm) from those that own or have owned them. Thanks

Have one. It is made by Metro in the Philippines and not Armscor. Imported by a NJ company and the only problem I ever encountered was a loose rear site. A little Lock Tight on the set screw and never a problem since The 1911 forum boys gave it a great review as well.

Philippine 1911's seem to be solid performers in my book and way better than the junk Springfield is importing from Brazil. Plus you don't have to put up with Dave Williiams smart ass attitude and Springfield's lousy service department.

Originally Posted by Big Boomer

Have one. It is made by Metro in the Philippines and not Armscor. Imported by a NJ company and the only problem I ever encountered was a loose rear site. A little Lock Tight on the set screw and never a problem since The 1911 forum boys gave it a great review as well.

Philippine 1911's seem to be solid performers in my book and way better than the junk Springfield is importing from Brazil. Plus you don't have to put up with Dave Williiams smart ass attitude and Springfield's lousy service department.

Thanks for the reply Big Boomer. That's what I'm looking for, 1st hand experiences.

Originally Posted by sixguncowboy

Thanks for the reply Big Boomer. That's what I'm looking for, 1st hand experiences.

Let me give you some more Ist hand Experience.....Never buy Springfield Armory Junk! They are not in any way connected to the original Springfield out of MA. It is a cheap import company in IL run by the Reese Brothers importing and selling Brazilian junk. They will not sell parts for their junkers either. Makes me wonder what they are trying to hide beside very poor quality, over priced South American crap full of Turkish MIM, (Metal Injected Molded) parts.

85% of the gun problems I repair are Springfield Armory junk. Broken link pins, ejectors and dis connectors. The frame castings are so poor that triggers have to be fitted into most of them. Springfield quality is so poor that they have to have a third detente cut into their hammers to control accidental discharge from uncontrollable hammer drop. OOPS! I just gave away the Springfield Armory Quality Control Problem. Not to worry Dave, I will keep the other ones under my hat!

Boomer,

Can you post any actual evidence that supports Springfield using cast frames? I'd love to read it.

Originally Posted by VAMarine

Boomer,

Can you post any actual evidence that supports Springfield using cast frames? I'd love to read it.

All you need to do is take a file to it to see for yourself. Why do you think it says MADE IN BRAZIL on the dust cover? Then just call Dave Williams at Springfield Armory and ask him. While your at it ask him if they have corrected their quality control problems yet with their Turkish MIM parts so that they can sell parts to gunsmiths in the United States.

Is it me or has anyone else noticed the biggest liars always seem to come out of the state of Illinois lately?

Originally Posted by Big Boomer

All you need to do is take a file to it to see for yourself. Why do you think it says MADE IN BRAZIL on the dust cover? Then just call Dave Williams at Springfield Armory and ask him. While your at it ask him if they have corrected their quality control problems yet with their Turkish MIM parts so that they can sell parts to gunsmiths in the United States.

Is it me or has anyone else noticed the biggest liars always seem to come out of the state of Illinois lately?

Well I must be deranged, I thought it said made in Brazil....because they are made in Brazil, just like my XD is made in Croatia. Just because it's made in Brazil does not = cast. Contrary to the questionable info you're spouting the Springfield website does say they they are NOT the original Armory, and they say the frames and slides are forged and I believe them having handled a number of Springfields. I don't see how you can call them cast Brazilian garbage while promoting cast Phillipino garbage. Not putting too much faith in the internet boards, but if SA was as bad as you say, these boards would be full of stories regarding the infeority of Springfield Armory, and that's just not the case.

I really have to call into question your overall knowledge if you consistantly call SA crap but refer to a KelTec as "an excellent personal defense weapon" you want to talk chuckles, that one about busted my ribs, on top of that your posting regarding why the Military uses ball ammo is flawed as well, they don't use it for the penetraiton, it's called the Hague Convention.

You continue to insist that SA uses cast frames without providing a single shread of proof not even so much as third party hearsay. I'm usually not one for name calling, but you're either an idiot or a liar and I'll ask you again to show a single bit of unbaised proof regarding your claims.

[QUOTE=VAMarine;190834]Well I must be deranged, I thought it said made in Brazil....because they are made in Brazil, just like my XD is made in Croatia. Just because it's made in Brazil does not = cast. Contrary to the questionable info you're spouting the Springfield website does say they they are NOT the original Armory, and they say the frames and slides are forged and I believe them having handled a number of Springfields. I don't see how you can call them cast Brazilian garbage while promoting cast Phillipino garbage. Not putting too much faith in the internet boards, but if SA was as bad as you say, these boards would be full of stories regarding the infeority of Springfield Armory, and that's just not the case.

I really have to call into question your overall knowledge if you consistantly call SA crap but refer to a KelTec as "an excellent personal defense weapon" you want to talk chuckles, that one about busted my ribs, on top of that your posting regarding why the Military uses ball ammo is flawed as well, they don't use it for the penetraiton, it's called the Hague Convention.

I don't like Springfield Imitation crap guns or the sleazy Illinois Reese Brothers either. Please permit me my freedom of speech kind sir. Any company that won't sell replacement parts is definitely hiding something. I don't want to argue but I will say that my assertions are fact based ie: http://ezine.m1911.org/RIATactical.htm

You might also want to read the Original 1911/1911a1 military manual as well.
http://www.sightm1911.com/manual/manual.htm

I will reiterate and regurgitate "SPRINGFIELD ARMORY GUNS ARE OVER PRICED JUNK"...there I said it again. Now that said, I make a very good living from repairing them with Wilson Combat Parts when they will fit into the inconsistent South American inferior cast frames. So who am I to complain, they are real money makers for me.

By the way, I carry and trust my life to a Glock 36 and don't like the copy cat Springfield Croatian Plastic Crap either....There is just nothing like the real thing baby. I would never carry a fully tensioned striker fired inferior weapon like the XD.....Xtra Dangerous is what XD stands for and discontinued by over 150 police departments for AD's when dropped.

By the way you have not given one shred of evidence that Springfield Armory Crap is not cast framed....I am waiting

PS Hague never was in Viet Nam either

Originally Posted by Big Boomer

I don't like Springfield Imitation crap guns or the sleazy Illinois Reese Brothers either. Please permit me my freedom of speech kind sir. Any company that won't sell replacement parts is definitely hiding something. I don't want to argue but I will say that my assertions are fact based ie: http://ezine.m1911.org/RIATactical.htm

I get that you don't like them, but your motives are suspect. Funny that you endorse M1911.org as a reference for your claims, but gloss over the numerous positive reviews for Springfield guns that are posted there as well as these two in the same e-zine that you posted:

http://ezine.m1911.org/SAemp.htm

http://ezine.m1911.org/SAMCOperator.htm

You might also want to read the Original 1911/1911a1 military manual as well.
http://www.sightm1911.com/manual/manual.htm

I've read it a few times, what's your point other than supporting my claims that condition 2 is a no-no and that it should be carried condition 3 unless immediate use is suspect in which case if should be carried condition 1? (Pg 19 in that manual)

l. In campaign, when early use of the pistol is not fore-
seen, it should be carried with a fully loaded magazine in
the socket, chamber empty, hammer down. When early use
of the pistol is probable, It should be carried loaded and
locked in the holster or hand. In campaign, extra maga-
zines should be carried fully loaded.

I will reiterate and regurgitate "SPRINGFIELD ARMORY GUNS ARE OVER PRICED JUNK"...there I said it again. Now that said, I make a very good living from repairing them with Wilson Combat Parts when they will fit into the inconsistent South American inferior cast frames. So who am I to complain, they are real money makers for me.

OK, I still don't get what you beef is. What's the problem?

By the way, I carry and trust my life to a Glock 36 and don't like the copy cat Springfield Croatian Plastic Crap either....There is just nothing like the real thing baby. I would never carry a fully tensioned striker fired inferior weapon like the XD.....Xtra Dangerous is what XD stands for and discontinued by over 150 police departments for AD's when dropped.

Variety is the spice of life, what works for you works for you, what works for me works for me, do I need to ask for a reference to the "over 150 PD's dropping the XD", or is my asking for proof getting old yet? Got a link? News Paper, Guns&Ammo (never mind, I wouldn't believe them either)

By the way you have not given one shred of evidence that Springfield Armory Crap is not cast framed....I am waiting

OK, as stated earlier, I believe the website:

PS Hague never was in Viet Nam either

Neither was 9mm FMJ in US guns, unless they adopted the Beretta in some other year than 1985??.

This thread has been hijacked. I appreciate the opinions about SA pro & con. But I posted asking about the FireStorm 1911 DLX. Let's keep it on topic.

Originally Posted by sixguncowboy

This thread has been hijacked. I appreciate the opinions about SA pro & con. But I posted asking about the FireStorm 1911 DLX. Let's keep it on topic.

Sorry about that boss.

if it makes you feel any better, the current line of Firestorm guns hasn't been available that long and most likely not too many people are buying them due to the issues associated with the previous FireStorm line which is why no one is posting regarding their experiences with them.

There's a few threads on the 1911 boards regarding them, and this Gunblast article which is a decent read:Firestorm and American Classic II Government Deluxe Model 1911 .45 ACP Auto Pistol

I think I'd remove the extended slide release for carry as that is the one extended part that can catch during a draw stroke. Fit and finish look about right for a gun of that price, $400 is about average pricing. I think I would take a RIA Tactical in either the matte nickel or the parkerized finish as I'm just not that crazy about a blued gun.

I'd be interested in knowing if the sight cuts are correct to Novak specs, I know there are some Novak style sights out there that have different sized dovetails.

Thanks Marine. I've already read the GunBlast article. I like the nickle RIA Tacticle too but I haven't been able to find any locally. We have a big gun show coming up the end of the month and I may be able to locate one there.

As far as the extended slide release is concerned, it won't be much of a problem for me. I doubt that I would ever carry it as it's a bit large to conceal well, unless in a shoulder holster during the winter. My main purpose is competition target shooting. I'm curious about the Novak style sights as well. I just may email Novak and ask them.

If you're looking for a target pistol then you have to ask yourself what you are willing to do after you get the weapon to get it to where you want to be. If you are starting with an RIA or Firestorm then you are basiclly buying a frame and you are going to tear it down and rebuild. The frame to slide fit on both the RIA and FS are not all that close but they were not built to be a target weapon.

Now you can fit the slide to the frame but it's not the easiest job and more than likely you will be looking for a gunsmith. If you pick up a 1911 and you shake it side to side and hear it rattle then you are holding a combat weapon rather than a target model. So you will hear the slide rattle, the barrels link & pin, and the barrel bushing maybe. Also the 4 - 4+# trigger pull will not be really target model friendly. Of course you can change all that or just a thing or two and get it where you want it to be and stop there. Many times you can accurize a weapon with a couple inexpensive tweaks while still keeping some of the features that make a combat model weapon more appealing.

Also a government 1911 is not all that hard to conceal really. I did it for years. THere are probably a few people here that doit too. A good holster and belt can do wonders

Originally Posted by sixguncowboy

As far as the extended slide release is concerned, it won't be much of a problem for me. I doubt that I would ever carry it as it's a bit large to conceal well, unless in a shoulder holster during the winter. My main purpose is competition target shooting. I'm curious about the Novak style sights as well. I just may email Novak and ask them.

Are you planning on leaving the gun stock or making some changes? What kind of competition?

Most target/bullseye shooters tend to go with adjustable sights, looking at the Firestorm, RIA line, I would have a hard time justifying the cost of cutting / refinishing the slide / adding adj. sights. etc.

That's where the dovetail specs come into play, if they are cut to Novak specs you can at least get an adjustable Novak style sight that will fit without altering the gun for BoMar style sights.

Originally Posted by VAMarine

Are you planning on leaving the gun stock or making some changes? What kind of competition?

Most target/bullseye shooters tend to go with adjustable sights, looking at the Firestorm, RIA line, I would have a hard time justifying the cost of cutting / refinishing the slide / adding adj. sights. etc.

That's where the dovetail specs come into play, if they are cut to Novak specs you can at least get an adjustable Novak style sight that will fit without altering the gun for BoMar style sights.

If I use it for competition it will be in Wild Bunch side matches in SASS. If I want to shoot traditional class I'll use my RIA 1911A1 and the FireStorm for modern class. Accuracy is not quite as important in SASS as in Bullseye.

Originally Posted by sixguncowboy

If I use it for competition it will be in Wild Bunch side matches in SASS. If I want to shoot traditional class I'll use my RIA 1911A1 and the FireStorm for modern class. Accuracy is not quite as important in SASS as in Bullseye.

Ahhh. I think the RIA / Firestorms would be good guns for the SASS side stuff. My cousin and some of the uncles are big into SASS and it's a good time all around. And given the budget needed for SASS I think the FireStorm / RIA line is the right idea.

Originally Posted by VAMarine

Ahhh. I think the RIA / Firestorms would be good guns for the SASS side stuff. My cousin and some of the uncles are big into SASS and it's a good time all around. And given the budget needed for SASS I think the FireStorm / RIA line is the right idea.

Yep I think so too. Everything I've read about them is positive. I'm going to pick up a FireStorm this afternoon.

Originally Posted by sixguncowboy

Yep I think so too. Everything I've read about them is positive. I'm going to pick up a FireStorm this afternoon.

How'd it go?

Originally Posted by Rys2k8Altima

How'd it go?

It went very well. I bought the Firestorm Govt. Model for $449.00 + tax at a shop in Lubbock, Tx. But I haven't had a chance to get out & shoot it. I've had to work every Saturday. But I'm finally going to be off this Saturday. We have a gun show in town this weekend and I'm going Saturday morning & to the range to send some lead down range in the afternoon providing the weather cooporates.

never mind