Any one else feel concern about carrying "cocked & Locked"?
I know all about all guns are carried cocked & locked (shotguns autos, etc) but it bothers me and seems to bother others that see it also.
If I'm carrying concealed no one sees it, but if I carry it in the open it seems to bug others.
Any one else feel this way?
When I had my XDs, technically I carried them cocked and locked and it didn't bother me at all. I was carrying the gun the way it was designed. Since you're posting in the 1911 section, I assume you're talking about carrying one. They way I see it, if you're carrying a gun, you carry with one in the chamber, and since you do not carry a 1911 with the hammer down on a loaded chamber, the only option in my book for carrying a 1911 is Condition 1.
Also, you're OCing and concerned with how people feel about the condition you are carrying in? IMO, people are going to be more concerned about the fact that you just have a gun and not so much about whether or not you have the hammer back.
There are several redundant safeties on modern 1911 pistols. So, even if your thumb safety gets flipped down, an extremely unlikely set of events has to occur for an accidental discharge to happen.
My 1911 is kept in condition 1 unless it's in the gun safe, then it's condition 3.
Todd good answer
I'll admit that it makes me a little nervous, if it has been awhile since I carried a 1911 type single action. I find myself checking the safety too often, especially if I've been sitting a lot or riding in a vehicle where it gets jostled around. Usually, as the weather starts to cool, and there are more opportunities to carry a full-size pistol, I will do more dry-fire drills to 're-acquaint' myself with cocked and locked carry.
But, checking the safety is not really a bad habit to get into, as long as you don't draw people's attention to the fact that you are carrying, and once I get used to it, again, I'm fine. I know I have good safety habits, and that I will never have my finger on the trigger unless I'm pointing at something I intend to shoot, so it's no big deal if I check the safety when nobody's looking.
No concerns whatsoever with carrying condition 1.
I've carried 1911's most of my handgun shooting life and it never has bothered me to have them in condition 1. If you have an issue carrying cocked and locked you might want to change your weapon for one that might make you feel more comfortable. I do know some people that will place the hammer in the half cock position but as my old Dad always tole me..."Don't go off half cocked"
And I always paid pretty close attention to what the old man had to say. He carried one since WWII.
As stated there are safeties all over the dang things. Unless you are sticking that booger hook inside the trigger guard while you are upholstering the weapon you';ll be fine. Like I said though if it bothers you then you might want to rethink your choice in weapons. As to how others think about it I'm pretty sure I wouldn't care. It should make them think "hmmm..This guy is good to go. I guess I'll not try to take his wallet". And that's just fine with me.
It all boils down to what you are comfortable with. If you are not 100% comfortable with your weapon then you are in trouble. That weapon will get you or someone you don't mean to hurt. Your weapon has to be as natural as any other part of your body. Because when you choose to carry it is a part of your body. You have to be able to bring that weapon up and be good to go when you have no time to think about the action itself. God willing you never will have to but being you have chosen to be a carrier then it has to have seemed a reality to you that you can be in a situation where you might need to be able to protect your self. You can't do that if you have any type of fear or unrest doe to your weapon.
Maybe something in a SA/DA like a revolver or say a Sig 229 or equivalent You can keep one in the pipe and the hammer can stay down. There's also the LDA Para "1911-like" weapons. The first round is DA then the rest are SA. There's a good bit less travel and a lot lighter pull compared to a standard DA weapon. Those LDA's are kind of pricey though. Bu they are really nice, I really want one..heh. A CPO Sig will save some green and might give you some peace of mind. Whatever it takes to achieve that piece of mind I hope you find it.
Great advice already given. I understand your discomfort but for me no I don't feel uncomfortable cocked and locked. Once you get used to it is kind of comforting because you have a positive not a passive safety that you can visually and physically check if need be. Big Ol' physical block of the hammer on the side. But as has been said your comfort level is what counts and there are some very good DA's and DA/SA's out there to choose from.
Long before I ever got a CCL, I had brought up this subject from time to time with clients that are LEO's. Many of them are older retired LEO's who carried the 1911 for a number of years. I've had some state that they have removed the pistol from the holster at the end of the day and found the safety off. I've had some say that other people have voiced concern about carrying a cocked pistol. I actually witnissed this myselft a number of years ago (so evidently people are in fact concerned about the hammer being in a cocked position).
None of them carry the 1911 any more. I did not specifically ask if it was because of the safety possibly moving off by itself, but they did state that the increased cartridge capacity and removing the need of having to deal with a safety lever in a high-stress situation were the reasons I heard many times. The great majority have moved on to carry hi-cap polymer guns now. My good friend and FFL dealer/CHL instructor/retired Sheriff/ and 1911/AR gunsmith only carries Glocks now. He is the main reason why I chose that brand to carry.
After picking a bunch of brains over the years, I decided that I would not be carrying around something that is cocked, and needs a safety lever. Not because I would worry about the safety lever moving without me knowing it happened, but because I do not want to have to deal with a lever if I'm in the suddenly unfortunate position of having to shoot someone. When even highly trained LEO "experts" forget to hit the lever during a sudden draw in a real life or death situation, I know that it's possible I will forget it too.
I have carried a 1911 now for 20 years and have never once had a safety slip down.I can't remember ever hearing of it happening for that matter. I wont say it can't because anything can happen but with a properly maintained weapon in a proper holster then it should be highly unlikely. I don't know what type of holster they were using but I would imagine that is was one of those Safariland basket weave type things(?) That should cover the safety completely. And with the trigger guard not exposed and the grip safety unable to be engaged unless your hand is wrapped around the weapon I still don't see how anything bad can happen.
By all means if one is not comfortable with any style of weapon for any reason they should not use it. But to say that the safety lever is a liability I can only go back to that persons training. If there is some LEO or anyone else for that matter out there that has forgot to drop the safety on their weapon then they had not properly trained wit that weapon. And any negative action that occurred from that persons inability to use their weapon is placed entirely on their shoulders. It's that simple. If some teen age boy does not know how to fry a burger because he didn't know how to and messed up an order people are most likely going to be upset and they will pas on that to others in that company. I'll wager that most everyone reading this has said "how damn hard is it to make a burger??!!??" I worked in food service as a manager and asst chef. I've heard all too many times people all fired up calling people idiots for not being able to do their job right. Well when lives hang in the balance I would think that people would take that much more time to make sure that they were able to use the told of their trade to properly do the job put in front of them. But as we know that is not always the case. Just like those untrained teens there are people out there that are charged with safety of the people that will never train outside of the time in the academy and after the mandatory qualifying that from what I've seen in some places is not very hard to do. There are civilians on this forum that have trained much more just to carry their weapon then kept training more than once a week at a range as well at home with drills than any LEO anywhere in the U.S. is required to do. It's this reason that I would rather have someone with a CCW in their pocket watching my back than many of the LEO I have had the chance to meet and get to know. Because more often than not they have much more training time with their weapon than the LEO that goes to the range when his superiors tell them they need to.
Again I would never tell anyone what weapon they need to carry but if you are going to carry one professionally or as a private citizen you need to be able to use that weapon as easily as you can point your finger. It's supposed to be a part of you. You should know that weapon inside and out and when you have to bring that weapon up in protection of yourself or others be able to do so without error. If you cannot you rather need to train more or put it away. You are going to hurt yourself or someone else will end up hurt due to your shortcomings. Using a handgun or any other weapon is not all fun and games. Lives can hang in the balance and I know damn well that if it's me I would have a real hard time living with myself knowing I could have prevented a shooting or a death if I had trained more effectively. That's why we train. So we can react and be able to do it without thinking.
To put it simply... good holster+good trigger finger dicipline+leave it the frack alone= safe.
Don't fiddle with your weapon in a good holster and you won't have to worry where the safety is. The key phrase here is "good holster". Buy a holster that not only protects the trigger, but one that protects the safety. I've been carrying a 1911 for years and I've never had an issue with the safety being off in the holster. Just keep your booger hook off the bang switch and you'll be good.
That being said, if you can't draw your weapon without keeping your finger out of the trigger guard, then practice more and learn to keep it out of the danger zone until needed. Your finger shouldn't be anywhere near the trigger until you've determined whether or not you need to pull the trigger. Simple problem.... simple solution.
The only point I was making with my statement is that you do have to train yourself to trust the safety and to flip the lever. I carry DAO and striker fired pistols, as well as a j-frame, occasionally, so the 1911 style is the only thing I have that requires this.
But, the 1911 is my most accurate carry gun, and the one I like the best, so I like to carry it whenever I can conceal it easily. I'm only saying that it does require a 'brush up' on your draw technique, and a slight alteration in your mindset, if you have not carried it recently.
I've found a "Four-in-One Holster" made by a holster maker that I've bought from before .. he makes a lot of these holsters for Texas Rangers and other lawmen ... it can be carried in straight up and down or cross draw or small of the back or FBI slant - thumb snap covers the cocked hammer and the trigger and the safety - oh by the way I bought a matching heavy duty belt and double mag holder....
go take a look
Don.... here is a thought for you in ALL seariousness !
If your weapon makes you "un-easy" or "nervious" ........
what is the fellon standing 3 feet from you pointing his gun at you when you look up and notice
him ............ going to do to you ??????????????????????????????????????????????
Drawing from concielment and fireing 3 rounds into center of mass in 1/2 seccond or less may be what it
takes to save you. ( or maybe something completely else) This process is simply a chain of several individual skills which when put end to end
correctly result in the desired result. (surviving) Is there a place in this for "thinking" about your
safety or your grip or your draw stroke or thinking at all ? Probably not. I say the "thinking"
stopped when you decided you had to act.
You can try to act "defensively" like the cops and back up from bullets........ (we've seen how that
often works ? ) or worse yet be thinking about your hardware ............
As I write this ..... literaly ....... I listen on my scanner of a carjacking with a cop as the victum.
A perfect example !
Get the idea ?????? If something ..... anything.... makes you uneasy you need to TRAIN IT OUT !
I don't have one nor have I ever even shot one (I know, what is wrong with me?), but in terms of mindset, if your not comfortable with it you probably shouldn't be carrying it.
But, if all your worried about is the fact that someone may see it and think your weird or unsafe...screw them. Anyone who knows anything about guns knows that 1911's are carried in that condition. I know and I don't own one. Go w/ what's comfortable would be my advice.
Carried a 1911 in cond. 1 for years. As has been stated here, never came home to find the saftey off. However, I now carry a Kahr CW45. Not saying I won't go with the 1911 again, but I do like the lighter weight of the Kahr for CC. If this CW45 trigger were not as smooth and good as this DAO pistol is then I would stay with the Kimber SLE. See ya, Bill
people that don't know about guns might would see your 1911 cocked and not realize there's a safety on. i guess that's only natural. but who cares anyway? you know that you're being safe.
i would carry cocked and locked without worry. someone just needs to practice drawing and clicking the safety off so much that it is done without thinking about it so you don't have to worry about not deactivating the safety in a stressful situation.
Your new "Four-in-One" holster may seem to be the bee's knees right now, because you are relatively new to pistol carrying; but I suggest to you that it may do you more harm than good.
The very best save-you-life thing that you could do would be to choose one, and only one, mode and position of carry, and then to practice the heck out of it until you can make quick, effective presentations smoothly, every time.
A holster that presents you with the temptation to change its orientation every so often, for whatever reason, will only keep you from learning to draw quickly, smoothly, and effectively. You just cannot learn to use four different holsters, all at once. Nobody can.
What you really need is to get used to a very-high-quality holster that remains fixed in one position, all of the time.
BTW: I don't know who makes that "four-in-one" holster, because the site-page you cite does not provide that information, but I dispute the maker's claim (if it's he who makes it) that "he makes a lot of these holsters for Texas Rangers and other lawmen."
Most experienced professional pistol users do not buy "four-in-one"-style carry rigs. They know that staying proficient with only one holster orientation is the best way to win fights.
Thanks for the advise.
it makes me nervous but maybe I should train it out
Since I do not drill with the pistol at the level I once did, I do have some reservations about carrying it cocked and locked; unless I have it holstered with a strap between the frame and hammer. The 1911 does have a grip safety and that makes a significant difference in the safety level. But I want that strap to protect me from myself.
I am much less concerned about some quick draw scenario than I am being alert and having my weapon out and ready if an exigency arises. I often carry a Browning Hi-Power and I never carry that cocked and locked without the strap. Many older military people were trained to draw, charge the pistol, and fire quickly. Perhaps we have a perception that those who never trained in the method do not?
IMHO, most ADs and NDs don't take place in or about the holster, but rather well after the pistol has begun to come up onto a target. The trigger-finger presses its way into the triggerguard, and the safety comes off much too early. That's "operator error," and no holster-mounted safety strap will keep such "accidents" from happening.
(A few finger-on-the-trigger reholsterings do occur, resulting in unintended "Bang!"s, but I believe that they are well within the minority of incidents. Safety straps don't prevent them, either.)
IM(much less)HO, I firmly believe that if you carry a pistol, you have the duty to train yourself in, and to continually practice, safe gun handling.
Although I absolutely hate the word "should" when it's used as an admonishment, please forgive my use of it it when I add: You should have no need "to protect me from myself."