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  1. #41
    Todd is offline Banned
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    I was wondering when the "I Live In a Safe Area" defense was going to surface in this thread.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dondavis3 View Post
    Any one else feel concern about carrying "cocked & Locked"?
    If I'm carrying concealed no one sees it, but if I carry it in the open it seems to bug others.
    Mr. Davis:

    We do not have open carry in Texas yet. Although we're working on it. If you're carrying openly in public, other than while hunting or at a shooting range, you're putting your CHL at jeopardy. You're going to get those looks whether you're carrying cond. 1 or 2.

    I've been carrying cocked & locked for 35+ years and never had a safety come off in the holster. Neither have I heard of it happening with anyone that I know. When I first started carrying a 1911 as a duty weapon I was a little uncomfortable with cond.1, but all the old hands told me that was the only way to carry it as cond 2 (round chambered, hammer down) is not safe, should it be dropped on a hard surface. Should one have to use their gun in a defensive situation cond. 3 (hammer down, round unchambered) takes too long to put the gun into action and could cost them their life.

  3. #43
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    Gosh sixguncowboy I didn't know that

    Of course it was hunting, and it wasn't even in Texas.

    Last edited by dondavis3; 09-26-2009 at 08:11 AM.

  4. #44
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bent21606 View Post
    i dont think i would carry chambered. no reason to. i guess if i lived in a different state id be different. i guess if i even had the option to carry i could think about it more lol
    Carrying an unchambered weapon is about as useful as carrying the loaded mag in your pocket and the weapon empty. Believe me when I tell you that (God forbid)when you need that weapon you are more than likely not going to have time to rack a slide. If it's so safe in your area that you believe you don't really need your weapon then I must question your desire to carry it to begin with. I live in the sticks where everyone knows me and I can leave my doors unlocked if I wanted to. But I don't because there's always a chance something bad could happen. I carry a weapon because I travel around the area a good bit and something bad can happen. There are no safe places. Bad has a way of popping up when you least expect it sometimes and if that bad does show it's face a half a second can save or end your life.

    Weapons were designed to be carried loaded with one on the pipe. "Israeli" carry (full mag not one on the pipe) come from citizens using police supplied weapons and they had too many different models and it was easier to tell the people to carry like that than train the citizens how to use all the different weapons. Being you own your weapon and I would imagine that you know how to use it properly you don't have the need to do this. If it makes you nervous to carry a fully loaded weapon then you might want to question your choice of weapons or even why you carry to begin with.

    I am not trying to be an ass or anything. I have learned from some peoples mistakes and my own training as well as personal experiences. You can not guarantee you will have the time to rack a slide and get ready to shoot. Lives are taken in a half a second. Time is your enemy in a bad situation.

    I'm all for being safe. It's why we don't practice as much as we train. We train to be able to react fast and to be able to do what's needed while trying to keep ourselves safe and all around us at the time. Even in "safer" communities you wont see an officer carrying their weapon with it empty in the chamber. And I know many that have been on duty for 20 years and never draw their weapon unless they are at the range. But that weapon wont have an empty chamber.

    Some weapon types feel more safe than others for different people for different reasons. But the only one more safe carrying with an empty chamber is the person that has instigated the situation that is causing you to draw your improperly loaded weapon.

    Again I'm not trying to upset you. It's just a simple truth.

  5. #45
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    I don't know why I bother.....BUT.....The pistol is designed to be carried cocked and locked.......otherwise carry a large rock and learn to throw well.

  6. #46
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    Never! Never! carry a Springfield Armory Brazilian Junker cocked and locked. Have you ever wondered why there is a third detente cut into Springfield hammers. The same reason they CAN NOT sell parts.....Extreme quality control problems with their Turkish MIM parts.

    A well made 1911 can be carried half cocked and was done so by all the lefties during their tour of duty in the service. Springfield Armory Brazilian Junk are not quality made guns.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boomer View Post
    Never! Never! carry a Springfield Armory Brazilian Junker cocked and locked. Have you ever wondered why there is a third detente cut into Springfield hammers. The same reason they CAN NOT sell parts.....Extreme quality control problems with their Turkish MIM parts.

    A well made 1911 can be carried half cocked and was done so by all the lefties during their tour of duty in the service. Springfield Armory Brazilian Junk are not quality made guns.


    Also, condition 2 carry is asking for a negligent discharge due to a hammer slip, don't do it.

  8. #48
    Fred40 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post


    Also, condition 2 carry is asking for a negligent discharge due to a hammer slip, don't do it.
    +1

    Nothing wrong with Springfields.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred40 View Post
    +1

    Nothing wrong with Springfields.
    You like them....I hate them. This is still America isn't it? I still have my first Amendment rights don't I? I work on them all the time and make a very good living repairing them with real metal parts that don't break like Turkish MIM parts!

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post


    Also, condition 2 carry is asking for a negligent discharge due to a hammer slip, don't do it.
    With a Wilson extra heavy duty firing pin spring we could not get a AD no matter how hard we hit it and knocked off half cock. Just not enough inertia to pop a primer!

    AD's are caused they just don't happen. Here read the original 1911/1911a1 manual.

    http://www.sightm1911.com/manual/manual.htm


  11. #51
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boomer View Post
    With a Wilson extra heavy duty firing pin spring we could not get a AD no matter how hard we hit it and knocked off half cock. Just not enough inertia to pop a primer!

    AD's are caused they just don't happen. Here read the original 1911/1911a1 manual.

    http://www.sightm1911.com/manual/manual.htm

    I'm not talking about a drop test, I'm talking about some fool letting go of the hammer while decocking and touching one off.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    I'm not talking about a drop test, I'm talking about some fool letting go of the hammer while decocking and touching one off.
    Franky Speaking that can happen with any firearm. The best safety is the one between your ears! There were several left handed guys that carried half cocked with a pull stretched firing pin spring in Nam with me. They would pull the spring to about a half inch longer. We had to get by with what we had. You would be amazed what a good water repellent that Esquire Paste Shoe Polish is. Try it on a blued gun. It will make it look purrrrtty too.

  13. #53
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boomer View Post
    Franky Speaking that can happen with any firearm. The best safety is the one between your ears! There were several left handed guys that carried half cocked with a pull stretched firing pin spring in Nam with me. They would pull the spring to about a half inch longer. We had to get by with what we had. You would be amazed what a good water repellent that Esquire Paste Shoe Polish is. Try it on a blued gun. It will make it look purrrrtty too.
    Agreed, I'm sure it's been done. Just like when on guard duty we were supposed to be condition 3, right?

    All I'm saying is that the likelihood of touching a round increases exponentially by lowering the hammer on a a loaded 1911. As far as lefties are concerned, just go get an ambi. safety.

    Given the choices, I'd rather have a condition 3 1911 on my side than a condition 2, but will take condition 1 over all others.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    Agreed, I'm sure it's been done. Just like when on guard duty we were supposed to be condition 3, right?

    All I'm saying is that the likelihood of touching a round increases exponentially by lowering the hammer on a a loaded 1911. As far as lefties are concerned, just go get an ambi. safety.

    Given the choices, I'd rather have a condition 3 1911 on my side than a condition 2, but will take condition 1 over all others.
    Point Taken I like my Glock 36 with a 3.5 trigger!

  15. #55
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    It all about being comfortable with your handgun, understanding how the safety features work and training on a regular basisThe mode of readiness preferred by the experts is Condition One. Generally speaking, Condition One offers the best balance of readiness and safety. Its biggest drawback is that it looks scary to people who don't understand the operation and safety features of the pistol.

    Condition Two is problematic for several reasons, and is the source of more negligent discharges than the other conditions. When you rack the slide to chamber a round in the 1911, the hammer is cocked and the manual safety is off. There is no way to avoid this with the 1911 design. In order to lower the hammer, the trigger must be pulled and the hammer lowered slowly with the thumb onto the firing pin, the end of which is only a few millimeters away from the primer of a live round. Should the thumb slip, the hammer would drop and fire the gun. Not only would a round be launched in circumstances which would be at best embarrassing and possibly tragic, but also the thumb would be behind the slide as it cycled, resulting in serious injury to the hand. A second problem with this condition is that the true 1911A1 does not have a firing pin block and an impact on the hammer which is resting on the firing pin could conceivably cause the gun to go off, although actual instances of this are virtually nonexistent. Finally, in order to fire the gun, the hammer must be manually cocked, again with the thumb. In an emergency situation, this adds another opportunity for something to go wrong and slows the acquisition of the sight picture.

    Condition Three adds a degree of "insurance" against an accidental discharge since there is no round in the chamber. To bring the gun into action from the holster, the pistol must be drawn and the slide racked as the pistol is brought to bear on the target. This draw is usually called "the Israeli draw" since it was taught by Israeli security and defense forces. Some of the real expert trainers can do an Israeli draw faster than most of us can do a simple draw, but for most of us, the Israeli draw adds a degree of complexity, an extra step, and an opening for mistakes in the process of getting the front sight onto the target.

    Paul Bonelli

    Last edited by Todd; 10-01-2009 at 06:00 PM. Reason: Business info in sig line

  16. #56
    Peaceful is offline Junior Member
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    Cocked & Locked

    Gentlemen, Though I'm new here on the forum I've carried for almost 60 yrs. I do like the 1911 and yes cocked & locked. Did you also realize that your other models are also cocked & locked? You just cannot see it.
    Peaceful

  17. #57
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  18. #58
    the.batman is offline Junior Member
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    My 2 cents- Become very familiar with your 1911 and train (preferably with a professional) to operate that gun in condition one- that's the way it was designed to be used. I've carried one in excess of 15 years (condition one) and never had an issue.

  19. #59
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    Nope, if your pistol is in proper condition you should have no worries.
    GIs did it for years with no problems.

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