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  1. #21
    dondavis3's Avatar
    dondavis3 is offline Senior Member
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    Steve M1911A1
    Thanks for the advise.


  2. #22
    EZ1
    EZ1 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dances with guns View Post
    people that don't know about guns might would see your 1911 cocked and not realize there's a safety on. i guess that's only natural. but who cares anyway? you know that you're being safe.

    i would carry cocked and locked without worry. someone just needs to practice drawing and clicking the safety off so much that it is done without thinking about it so you don't have to worry about not deactivating the safety in a stressful situation.
    Agreed, it is the way I carry mine.

  3. #23
    Locke is offline Junior Member
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    it makes me nervous but maybe I should train it out

  4. #24
    Teuthis is offline Member
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    Since I do not drill with the pistol at the level I once did, I do have some reservations about carrying it cocked and locked; unless I have it holstered with a strap between the frame and hammer. The 1911 does have a grip safety and that makes a significant difference in the safety level. But I want that strap to protect me from myself.

    I am much less concerned about some quick draw scenario than I am being alert and having my weapon out and ready if an exigency arises. I often carry a Browning Hi-Power and I never carry that cocked and locked without the strap. Many older military people were trained to draw, charge the pistol, and fire quickly. Perhaps we have a perception that those who never trained in the method do not?

  5. #25
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teuthis View Post
    ...Many older military people were trained to draw, charge the pistol, and fire quickly. Perhaps we have a perception that those who never trained in the method do not?
    I think it's more a matter of the previous-era's military knowing that our pistol-armed troops were relatively untrained in safety due to time constraints placed upon them by wartime exigencies.

    IMHO, most ADs and NDs don't take place in or about the holster, but rather well after the pistol has begun to come up onto a target. The trigger-finger presses its way into the triggerguard, and the safety comes off much too early. That's "operator error," and no holster-mounted safety strap will keep such "accidents" from happening.
    (A few finger-on-the-trigger reholsterings do occur, resulting in unintended "Bang!"s, but I believe that they are well within the minority of incidents. Safety straps don't prevent them, either.)

    IM(much less)HO, I firmly believe that if you carry a pistol, you have the duty to train yourself in, and to continually practice, safe gun handling.
    Although I absolutely hate the word "should" when it's used as an admonishment, please forgive my use of it it when I add: You should have no need "to protect me from myself."

  6. #26
    Locke is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    I think it's more a matter of the previous-era's military knowing that our pistol-armed troops were relatively untrained in safety due to time constraints placed upon them by wartime exigencies.

    IMHO, most ADs and NDs don't take place in or about the holster, but rather well after the pistol has begun to come up onto a target. The trigger-finger presses its way into the triggerguard, and the safety comes off much too early. That's "operator error," and no holster-mounted safety strap will keep such "accidents" from happening.
    (A few finger-on-the-trigger reholsterings do occur, resulting in unintended "Bang!"s, but I believe that they are well within the minority of incidents. Safety straps don't prevent them, either.)

    IM(much less)HO, I firmly believe that if you carry a pistol, you have the duty to train yourself in, and to continually practice, safe gun handling.
    Although I absolutely hate the word "should" when it's used as an admonishment, please forgive my use of it it when I add: You should have no need "to protect me from myself."

    you first sentence does not make sense to me, lot easier to train them in the use of a saftey, than the cock and draw method just my IMHO, is there a link to stats that prove your point, I probaly agree with you since most gun accidents seem to happen long after the gun is out of holster, like the famous I thought it was unloaded
    Last edited by Locke; 09-13-2009 at 07:05 AM. Reason: ADDING TO POST

  7. #27
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    I think it's more a matter of the previous-era's military knowing that our pistol-armed troops were relatively untrained in safety due to time constraints placed upon them by wartime exigencies....
    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    you first sentence does not make sense to me, lot easier to train them in the use of a saftey, than the cock and draw method just my IMHO...
    During WW2, according to my stepfather, pistol training was pretty rudimentary. It was mostly about field-stripping and keeping the piece clean. Safety issues were addressed by requiring almost everybody to carry hammer-down-on-empty-chamber. The idea was that you'd know when you were going to be in a fight, well in advance. At other times, you had no need of a ready-to-fire pistol.
    In civvies, things are a little different. You can easily find yourself in a fight with no warning at all, and at very close range. You need to be able to respond instantly, not after the second or two it'll take you to rack the slide after presenting your weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    ...[I]s there a link to stats that prove your point, I probaly agree with you since most gun accidents seem to happen long after the gun is out of holster, like the famous I thought it was unloaded
    There probably are such statistics but, I'm ashamed to say, I no longer know where to find them. My statement is based more upon experience than on statistical evidence. Sorry.

  8. #28
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    it's safer than carrying a glock, which is more like cocked and unlocked.

    so no, i'm not concerned about safety with cocked and locked carry

  9. #29
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dances with guns View Post
    it's safer than carrying a glock, which is more like cocked and unlocked...
    In my (small) experience with Glocks, I think that I should dispute your point.
    I believe that the Glock system is actually safer to carry concealed than a cocked-and-locked 1911, especially in the hands of a neophyte.
    I'm pretty competent with a 1911, but my daily carry is a safety-less, DAO, .45 ACP semi-auto because I don't have to wonder whether or not some unknown agent or occurrence has accidentally wiped my pistol's safety-lever to "off." The DAO trigger pull alone provides all the safety I require.
    (I'm not as sure of the inherent safety of a Glock with a light-action trigger connector, though.)

  10. #30
    dondavis3's Avatar
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    +1 Steve M1911A1


  11. #31
    bent21606 is offline Junior Member
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    i dont think i would carry chambered. no reason to. i guess if i lived in a different state id be different. i guess if i even had the option to carry i could think about it more lol

  12. #32
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by bent21606 View Post
    i dont think i would carry chambered. no reason to.
    What?!?!? If you don't carry chambered you might as well carry a brick because if you think you can draw and rack the slide fast enough to get a shot off when seconds, literally, count, then you've seen too many action movies.

  13. #33
    dondavis3's Avatar
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    +1 Todd

    If your going to carry - you gotta carry chambered - just my .02

    But to each his own.


  14. #34
    bent21606 is offline Junior Member
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    i was just tough to be extremely careful with guns. i dont keep loaded guns in my house. the safetys are always on no matter what. and i wont buy a gun with no safety. your believe are different then mine it doesn't mean im wrong

  15. #35
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    bent21606 - Your absolutely right - whatever works for you is good for you and safety is always good.

    You may want to reconsider what you were taught as it pertains to CCW. I was taught by my father exactly the way you were taught.

    After two different stints as a policeman once in NJ and again in Texas, I had to re-adjust my thinking on carrying a concealed weapon at all and then just how I would carry it.

    I learned that the police always want to be there to protect you, but they can't be everywhere at once - 90% of the time they arrive after the incident has already finished.

    I didn't even use to carry a concealed weapon, but I decided it was my responsibility to protect my self & my family and I wasn't going to be a "vicitim" .

    Well if you decide that, you must carry and once you decide to carry, then you must learn that things happen to fast to rack your slide and feed a round.

    You might want to consider carrying a small revolver, but I still believe you might want to study and re-think not carrying it loaded.

    Just my .02 - I'm trying to be helpful and your are right for you with whatever you decide.


  16. #36
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bent21606 View Post
    i was just tough to be extremely careful with guns. i dont keep loaded guns in my house. the safetys are always on no matter what. and i wont buy a gun with no safety. your believe are different then mine it doesn't mean im wrong

    So let me get this straight, you want to buy an handgun for home defense, but you want to keep it unloaded and with a safety on. So when you need it (probably at night, being woken out of a dead sleep), you will have time to:

    1: Retrieve gun from storage
    2: Find magazine (hopefully you will at least have that loaded ahead of time)
    3: Load the magazine, chamber a round
    4: Remove the safety
    5: Address the threat

    How much time to you plan on having when you need the gun?

  17. #37
    bent21606 is offline Junior Member
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    once again i live in new jersey. surrounded by farm land. if someone breaks into my house it would probable be a punk kid who i couldnt use a gun on anyway. and yes i would have a clip loaded. but i really dont live anywhere where anything like that ever happens. home protection is just a plus part of a handgun. if i were in a threatening area i probably would carry loaded. but i cant carry i dont feel the need to and i dont feel the need to keep a loaded gun in my house or my room for that madder

  18. #38
    dondavis3's Avatar
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    Well there you go - if you live in rural NJ there isn't anyplace prettier.

    You need to do what's comfortable for you.



  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dances with guns View Post
    people that don't know about guns might would see your 1911 cocked and not realize there's a safety on. i guess that's only natural. but who cares anyway? you know that you're being safe.

    i would carry cocked and locked without worry. someone just needs to practice drawing and clicking the safety off so much that it is done without thinking about it so you don't have to worry about not deactivating the safety in a stressful situation.
    Nelson: As retired military and some flight engineering we would practice and practice until our actions were automatic. Not to say we wern't thinking but when an emergency came up and a mistake could cost you your life you had to act quickly and responsibly. Same way in a fighting condition. I have more confidence in my hands and feet if I'm in a strike position than a gun as your hands can be very quick if you let automatic reflex take over.
    I only say this because some gang kids I worked with are in prison because they shot someone in the heat of the moment. One was only 16 when he went to prison for murder in 1996 and his early release date won't be until 2023.
    My life has been threatened and I have been shot at, knives taken to me... and yet it wasn't the Crips, Bloods, Gangster Disciples, Vice Lords or Latin Kings I had to worry about; it was the other guy who was quick tempered, insecure etc.
    I have a Tatical Mossberg, 8 rounds of buck, for protection and will purchase probably a Mark 23 H&K .45, and I may be wrong but I feel secure enough not to carry my weapon cocked and chambered. In the past I could get rounds off pretty quick and accurately without having a bullet in the chamber. Out of striking range I can move. If I sense danger I'll have time to chamber. If I am close enough and a gun is pointed at me I would feel safer disarming the person with my hands then I would trying to draw my chambered pistol.
    This is not a matter of bravado but a conciousness that life is precious and in my work in gang hoods I was always able to diffuse the situation.
    I hope I make sense.

  20. #40
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    I don't have a problem with it.

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