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  1. #51
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is online now HGF Forum Moderator
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    Yea, I paid the $25 for shipping and the $25 for the FFL fee - but there was no sales tax. So, I still came out ahead.

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  3. #52
    Charlie's Avatar
    Charlie is offline Senior Member
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    Thanks for the updates. I guess it's $800 + for now.

  4. #53
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is online now HGF Forum Moderator
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    Well, it is my understanding that whole sale is $756.

  5. #54
    Beginner's Luck's Avatar
    Beginner's Luck is offline Junior Member
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    One wholesaler has it listed today for $836.85. I know that they have gone up recently, so that may not be too far above average wholesale now.

  6. #55
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    jeffie is offline Junior Member
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    we make them here in Belgium, and we are not allout to shoot them, strickly military and police forces

    jeff

  7. #56
    Charlie's Avatar
    Charlie is offline Senior Member
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    Hey Ship........

    Now that you've had it for a while what do you think about it? You've probably got some good range time in by now. Give us a report and some pictures.

  8. #57
    spacedoggy's Avatar
    spacedoggy is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffie View Post
    we make them here in Belgium, and we are not allout to shoot them, strickly military and police forces

    jeff
    That sucks but thank you for coming out with such a great piece of work and start making more ammo so you can flood the market so we can buy it dirt cheap. Just a suggestion.

  9. #58
    dallaswood43 is offline Junior Member
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    arguing over calibers

    yes the time honored tradition of arguing over a caliber's usefulness/effectiveness. fact is you would not want to be shot with any of them. if someone breaks into your home and you put two or three in them of any caliber they will not be coming back for more. and as far as "justifying" the purchase. not many of us will ever have a life or death situation that "justifies" our firearms. sometimes they are just really sweet to shoot and own.

  10. #59
    Liko81 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacedoggy View Post
    I need to take a better look at my chronograph.

    "To cut through body armor the .224-inch-diameter SS190 projectile incorporates a cone-shaped steel penetrator sitting atop an aluminum core surrounded by a steel jacket. Velocity of the 5.7x28mm SS190 ball load from a P90 PDW's 10.2-inch barrel is a respectable 2346 fps. Out of a Five-seveN pistol with 4.8-inch barrel it clocks 2133 fps. Despite the high muzzle velocity recoil is approximately 30 percent less than the 9x19mm. This 5.7x28mm load was specifically designed to defeat a NATO CRISAT target (consisting of a 1.6mm titanium plate with 20 Kevlar folds), and it will--even at 200 meters."

    Good review on the firearm found at

    http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun.../fnusg_021207/
    Only problem is the SS190 is the hardened-tip AP round, and illegal for civilians to possess. That's the round the guns were designed for, and the "ball" and expanding rounds available for civilians (the expanders, oddly enough, are illegal for military use according to the Hague Convention) are ballistically inferior to traditional handgun and even rifle caliber cartridges widely used by civilians.

    Thus, ammunition can be suitable for humans but not animals. How many deer wear a bulletproof vest? How many soldiers do? The 5.7 round is more effective through body armor than most other handgun rounds by sacrificing everything for penetration, but because it relies so highly on penetration it is ballistically inferior in practically every other respect to other rounds which balance penetration and permanent cavity at the expense of armor penetration, and therefore only of greater overall utility in an environment where your adversary is likely to be armored. It's a wartime round, not a personal defense or hunting round.

    So, you're both right. The Five-seveN with AP cartridges beats the 9mm and even the .45 on the battlefield, however as AP cartridges are not available stateside it is inferior to both calibers on the street as a police or civilian sidearm.

    P.S. - A NATO CRISAT target is not all that. NIJ Standard IV, which is issued to FBI and SWAT counterterrorism tac teams, is far better; it'll protect against a 30-06 armor-piercing round travelling up to 2900fps. That's a bullet with the same penetrating tip, about 7x the mass, and at least 500fps more velocity. A CRISAT target is roughly Standard IIIA, which is designed to stop a non-AP handgun round up to 240 grains at 1400fps (which is up to and including .44 Magnum). Designing an armor-piercing bullet that will defeat a vest not designed to defend against AP is rather pointless; show me a bullet that defeats a vest designed to stop other AP rounds and I'll be impressed.

  11. #60
    Mach One Man's Avatar
    Mach One Man is offline Junior Member
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    Free Ammo

    If you purchase a five seven between 12-1-2007 & 3-31-2008 FN will send you the first 200 rounds free! Just print the form off their website, complete it & attach bill of sale & a copy of your BATFE form 4473 & fax or mail it to them. Saves you about $90! I don't see any other manufacturers offering the first 200 rounds for free. January 1st did bring a price increase but some dealers will sell it at the old prices. I've seen them range from $850 to $1275! There have been a few used ones on forums for around $750 with extra's. I paid $885 for mine shipped off Gunbroker. Ammo is $18-$20 but $24 + tax in local retailers. Can't shoot it indoors at my club so waiting for the weather to break!

  12. #61
    submoa is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    International popularity? Because the French and Belgians are such authorities on gunfighting?
    Mike (and others),

    A little Belgian company called FN makes the Browning Hi Power. Its the handgun John Moses Browning designed after a little number we like to call the 1911. The FN factory in South Carolina, FN Manufacturing LLC, has the US government contract for M16, M249 and M240. So I wouldn't dismiss the Belgians when it comes to guns... or chocolate (their love of mayo on french fries is another matter).

    For a number of years, my best buddy, lover, mother and father was the FN L1A1 (FAL) until the politicians tried to get me killed by issuing the motherF'ing piece of sh^t jamo-matic SA80. Yes, a FAL is heavier than an M4, but when you need to, you can buttstroke without damaging the rifle.

    I can't say I like the five-seven, but it seems a perfect partner if you already have a P90.

  13. #62
    submoa is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liko81 View Post
    show me a bullet that defeats a vest designed to stop other AP rounds and I'll be impressed.


    Allow me to introduce you to the FRAG-12 fin-stabilized High Explosive Fragmenting Antipersonnel 12 gauge shotgun round.

  14. #63
    hideit's Avatar
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    I first saw a 5.7 ps90 18 months ago. The local Homeland Security people have them.
    i saw a 5.7 pistol today and i came home and read up on a lot of info i could find and then i read all of these threads.
    i see no need for a civilian to own the pistol except if they have the carbine.
    the round was made for NATO in 2000 for the ps90 carbine.
    The cartridges they have are far better than what is allowed for civilians. The mag for the ps90 holds 50 rounds - 50 rounds of bullets that the civilians can not get is why the LE personnel have it - the pistol was an after thought -
    i agree with mike - there are better handguns for consideration over the 5.7

  15. #64
    Nastynewt's Avatar
    Nastynewt is offline Junior Member
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    But does it have a low bore axis?

  16. #65
    blankcheque is offline Junior Member
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    Guns are like a fine tool.

    I wouldn't use a screw driver as a hammer. And I wouldn't use a five-7 as a defensive gun.

    It's too light, it doesn't punch a big enough hole, and if I've got some 300 pound Polynesian eyes and nostrils flaring like a bull ready to charge in a drug fueled rage I'd never use it as such.

    It's an offensive cartridge.

    It's got incredible accuracy at distance for a sidearm. And it's got amazing penetration at range. Something a rimfire .22 wouldn't have that you'd sling in a holster. And before the round was completely neutered here in the U.S. (Thanks California.) it was an incredibly lethal firearm that would leave no room for argument at it's potential for serious bodily harm.

    It's a great tool for what it's intended for, killing at range, with a compact weapon that can be slapped on your hip.

    I just don't understand the debate behind this gun, and why it causes so many bitter arguments. Maybe it's a distinctive mindset with some shooters who look at it as a funky bullet that's nothing more then a way to make money off their exclusive built round. Maybe it's the mindset engrained as they became shooters, and gun owners themselves.

  17. #66
    khellandros66 is offline Junior Member
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    This pistol is featured in the Metal Gear Solid game. Its great for CQC you can nail a target with spot on accuracy from quite a distance too. This thing holds some major ammo in a small arm, 20rds per mag.

    If FN was really smart they make a smaller carbine, similar to say a TEC-9 with this round in mind.

    Bobby

  18. #67
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by khellandros66 View Post
    If FN was really smart they make a smaller carbine, similar to say a TEC-9 with this round in mind.

    Bobby

    Well FN was pretty smart. They make the P90 PDW, and it shoots the 5.7mm round, the same as in the FiveseveN pistol.
    Here's a little vid of the P90 for ya. FN P90 VIDEO

    Zhur

  19. #68
    Waldo Pepper's Avatar
    Waldo Pepper is offline Junior Member
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    Well I have stepped over to the dark side and bought the Five Seven and so far it is serving the purpose quite well and it's not much more expensive the 22 WMR ammo and lot better round.

    The 40 gr BT round sure is a stopper of feral dogs at 50 yards or a tad more. And at 25 yards I can put 20 rounds in a 10" pie plate in about the same time I can do 6 from my S&W 610-3 10 mm with 6.5" barrel.

    I had to leave the hard slamming slides of my 10 mm automatics behind because of the arthritis in my hands and get something more then a 22 WMR with the ability to be able to stand to practice once a month or so. My 4 10 mm's are gone now, S&W 1006, 1086, G29 and Tanfoglio have all been sold or traded off.

    My DW 357 and S&W 610-3 will stay as they do not bother my hand as yet. The DW 357 is like shooting a S&W K22 except lot louder and the 610-3 10 mm is my target gun that I shoot LSWC in and usually have only loaded to about 1000 fps and with that big heavy N frame those are hardly even felt. I sometimes think the slide hammering home is the problem, not recoil as we would normally think.

  20. #69
    Slowfire is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benzbuilder View Post
    The price of the ammo isn't that bad. I have found it for 19.95 per box of 50.
    Same here, sometimes you find the deals out there. This baby comes out at special occasions.

  21. #70
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is online now HGF Forum Moderator
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    We have a couple of sponsors at the FN Forum who have some sales on the stuff now, if you buy in bulk.

  22. #71
    Red-5 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dallaswood43 View Post
    as far as "justifying" the purchase. not many of us will ever have a life or death situation that "justifies" our firearms. sometimes they are just really sweet to shoot and own.
    That's exactly why I bought one. Let's face it, many people own a multiple firearms, many they will never, ever use as a carry weapon. I scan the different forums on here and see people spend $4000 for a 1911 for range/tournament use, these guns will never be used for carry. Does this mean they were silly for buying them?

    I have carry firearms, but that does not mean that I should stop purchasing another gun does it, just because I may not ever carry it?

  23. #72
    mako72401 is offline Junior Member
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    I picked up a 5.7 about 6 months ago. Ammo price was a little bit of a negative aspect at first, but actually it hasn't gon up nearly as much (percentage) as decent ammo for a 9, 40, or 45 has. Love the way the pistol shoots and the recoil is barely noticable.

  24. #73
    Bukwild CTO2 is offline Junior Member
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    I would like to shoot one before laying down the loot. Range does not have one in the rental cabinet and probably wont for a while. Might have to see if I know someone who has one before commenting.

  25. #74
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    5.7

    I'm not sure where people here are getting their info but:
    5.7 ammo (the blue box) is balistic tip jacketed hollow point. You are complaining about a box of 50 for $22?
    5.7 is in no way anything like a 22mag. Tests have shown it to crate a wound cavity much like a 9mm.
    5.7 is very accurate and has great range with little drop.
    5.7 YEP even the civilian ammo will go through some body armor.

    So... you can guy a handgun that is every bit as well made as other poly handguns for around the same price as some (HK, Sig etc) that is made by a company with a great rep that provides most of the small arms for our military. The gun is light, holds 20 rounds (30 with small mag extension) has little recoil, super accurate, long range, defeats body armor, does damage similar to a 9mm and the ammo costs less then most other normal rounds for JHP.

    Seems the facts disagree with most of the posts.

  26. #75
    redpenguin01's Avatar
    redpenguin01 is offline Junior Member
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    It's still legal to buy the AP bullets as a civilian from private sellers right? I've seen a couple auction sites where they were selling preban 5.7 AP bullets.

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