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  1. #1
    jbultman is offline Junior Member
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    Should we resort to arming teachers and school staff with guns?!

    I recently read an article that peaked my interest on the topic of arming teachers and school staff with guns and I wanted to get y'alls opinion on the issue. I am a teacher of 9 years in Ohio and (although currently laid up in bed with a broken foot) I wanted to bring up this question here. Spark any ideas? My school doesn't allow CCW for teachers currently however the neighboring district recently starting testing it.

    I like the general idea of it arm teachers, so that when a "bad guy blazes in shootin' up the school" we will be able to protect the students. But I can see the opposite side to with; can we really trust teachers to not abuse the power and students not to take advantage...

    I also read this and interesting as it may be I questioned it, and I quote; "... lawmakers across the country are pushing proposals to arm teachers in the classroom. But many of them may be wasting their time. More than a third of the states already allow teachers and other adults to carry guns to school. In most cases, all you need is the equivalent of a note from the principal — you usually don't even need law enforcement approval... (firearms and education laws in all 50 states and found that 18 of them allow adults to have a loaded gun on school grounds, usually as long as they have written permission.)

    INTERESTING!!!!

    Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas?

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  3. #2
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    pic is offline Senior Member HGF Gold Member
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    The NRA has been working on a great suggestive program.
    It's an immediate response program that would provide children more protection then any gun restriction laws that already exist or that are being debated and created.

    NRA-backed task force pushes to arm teachers, school staff - First Read

  4. #3
    BlueLineFish is offline Junior Member
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    I am a big fan of the idea. Even if its not the teachers. Hire retired LEO ex military as school safety officers. They ars dressed in plain clothes and are in charge of that schools security. Creates jobs and keeps kids safer than wwithout. Also keeps the uniformed presence out of schools for those afraid of police state appearances. It doesnt even have to be ex leo or ex military. Anybody meeting the agreed training criteria would be eligible. The military and leo might make it available in less gun friendly states like ours for the time being.

  5. #4
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    There are many options that would provide immediate protection. CUOMO ,if he truly wanted to do make the right move, if he truly cared. He would have established an immediate safe environment for our school children. The action he took was purely some type of masquerade, that somehow is supposed to be protecting school children. Unless CUOMO truly can not see the forest through the trees. He is just a dummy. I actually think Bloomberg with his billions$ of dollars has Cuomo on his puppeteer strings.
    Bloomberg with half the population of NYSTATE RESIDING in NYC., Who is really running things??

  6. #5
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    I don't know that arming the teachers is a good idea (unless they want to be armed and are proficient with a firearm).. HOWEVER, I do think we can have armed security at every school. Even if its just 1-2 ex law enforcement or military folks in command of school security.

    I work in an industry right now that many of my customers have very tight security in their buildings to protect their assets and their corporate IP. Also when you go to a gov't facility (DOD, INTEL, etc) you can't even get into the facility with out proper credentials... if our Children are most precious then why can't we spend an appropriate amount of money and thought on how to do this right?

    From what I understand the CT school shooting could have been stopped at the front door if appropriate security was in place. At the very least if there were armed guards present on the property.. and a gun locker somewhere central to the building.. enough fire power could be mustered in time to prevent the gruesome extent of the tragedy.

    So.. Arm the Librarian and gym teacher? probably not.. but having a good security detail for the school.. absolutely.

    My .02

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  8. #7
    rex
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    I believe Utah has been doing this for years.I'm all for it,provided the people that are armed are responsible and competant.I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone because some are too ignorant to have one.

  9. #8
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Arm teachers?
    If they're willing to go for training, why not?
    It works in Israel. It'll work here, too.

    To pervert the hoplophobes' own mantra: "It's for the children."

  10. #9
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    Yes, I'm all for it, if whoever is armed is highly proficient and trained or certified. It's much better to be armed than being a sitting duck and virtually defenseless. I have yet to hear any issue with school personal being armed. The only way to combat a bad guy w/ a deadly weapon is a good guy with a deadly weapon.

  11. #10
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    I see no reason why a teacher or anyone else in a school who has received a carry permit should not be allowed to carry in their school. And for those school employees who do not have a permit but are willing to apply for one and go through the training, why not? I would suggest that if they are going to carry in a school they should receive some special training which would be focused on their particular probability situations. It certainly is a whole lot better than lying in wait for some psycho to visit you with the business end of his weapons.

    On other websites, this is part of my sig;

    "In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?"

    I think that pretty much sums up where I stand on this any all other related issues.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Arm teachers?
    If they're willing to go for training, why not?
    It works in Israel. It'll work here, too.

    To pervert the hoplophobes' own mantra: "It's for the children."
    Love that word
    But your absolutely correct. The hoplophobes picture in their minds,, teachers doing the Barney Fyfe thing.
    They want to protect our children but cannot commit. Hypocritical hoplophobes ,lol.

  13. #12
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Actually, I think that the hoplophobes believe that a teacher is at risk of going crazy, and slaughtering the children in the classroom.
    Either that, or they worry that the armed teacher will let the children "play" with the gun—loaded, of course.

    In other words, the fearfully feckless somehow believe that all teachers are just as thoughtless and irresponsible as they are.

    This unspoken, irrational fear governs all of their decisions.

  14. #13
    jbultman is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Actually, I think that the hoplophobes believe that a teacher is at risk of going crazy, and slaughtering the children in the classroom.
    Either that, or they worry that the armed teacher will let the children "play" with the gun—loaded, of course.

    In other words, the fearfully feckless somehow believe that all teachers are just as thoughtless and irresponsible as they are.

    This unspoken, irrational fear governs all of their decisions.
    Agreed, however one can never truly know what these "Hypocritical hoplophobes" are thinking!!!

  15. #14
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    I don't think we should make them have weapons for the simple fact that if students know teachers and facility are carrying them, they automatically become a target. I DO however think that they should have the right to defend themselves just as any other US citizen should.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Actually, I think that the hoplophobes believe that a teacher is at risk of going crazy, and slaughtering the children in the classroom.
    Either that, or they worry that the armed teacher will let the children "play" with the gun—loaded, of course.

    In other words, the fearfully feckless somehow believe that all teachers are just as thoughtless and irresponsible as they are.

    This unspoken, irrational fear governs all of their decisions.
    Yes, yes ,how true.

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trev1337 View Post
    I don't think we should make them have weapons for the simple fact that if students know teachers and facility are carrying them, they automatically become a target. I DO however think that they should have the right to defend themselves just as any other US citizen should.
    If someone enters the school grounds or building with intent to kill.
    I think everybody is a target anyway.
    And it is strictly on a volunteer basis for the teacher or administrator to participate..
    There are not "making "the teachers carry guns

    Lookup on google ,the NRA has put together a great comprehensive package for an immediate plan of protection for our children.
    Something the government has not done. Or even come close to doing. Obama can shed his tears, and parade the victims of newtown , but Obama did nothing to protect our children.

    GOD BLESS THE CHILDREN N FAMILIES OF NEWTOWN.
    The anger towards the government I display, is reflective of the tears I shed.

  18. #17
    Haas is offline Member
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    I'm for it also. If not the teachers and principals, then at least a few armed guards on the grounds. Just in case one of the armed guards snaps, and becomes the "school shooter", that would be why you have at the very least, 2 armed guards.

  19. #18
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haas View Post
    ...Just in case one of the armed guards snaps, and becomes the "school shooter", that would be why you have at the very least, 2 armed guards.
    Aha! Here you have an example of exactly the irrational panic about which I previously wrote.
    Why would there be any expectation at all, that one of the armed guards would "snap"?
    Why would an armed guard, whose acknowledged duty was to protect the children and staff, be seen as a greater threat than a crazed killer from outside? Or even as an equal threat?

    The only answer that I can conceive to my own questions is, "Well, he's got a loaded gun, doesn't he?"
    And right there, folks, is hoplophobic panic.

  20. #19
    jbultman is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pic View Post
    god bless the children n families of newtown.
    The anger towards the government i display, is reflective of the tears i shed.
    amen!!!

  21. #20
    Haas is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Aha! Here you have an example of exactly the irrational panic about which I previously wrote.
    Why would there be any expectation at all, that one of the armed guards would "snap"?
    Why would an armed guard, whose acknowledged duty was to protect the children and staff, be seen as a greater threat than a crazed killer from outside? Or even as an equal threat?

    The only answer that I can conceive to my own questions is, "Well, he's got a loaded gun, doesn't he?"
    And right there, folks, is hoplophobic panic.
    No, it's because it's plainly obvious that at any point in time, anyone can fall through the cracks and become a schizoid crack pot, surprising everyone who knows this person because they were always such a "sweet sweet little boy". Being an armed guard in no way make a person immune to it. So, you've got your bases covered.

  22. #21
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    It is my opinion that all school teachers should be required to have a valid permit to conceal. This doesn't mean that all have to carry however when asked if you have a gun by a parent the teacher says, "we all are legal to carry and concealed means concealed, this is all I can say." No one should ever know which teachers are carrying and which chose not to.

  23. #22
    pic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haas View Post
    No, it's because it's plainly obvious that at any point in time, anyone can fall through the cracks and become a schizoid crack pot, surprising everyone who knows this person because they were always such a "sweet sweet little boy". Being an armed guard in no way make a person immune to it. So, you've got your bases covered.
    Oh boy,, you just got "AHA'd". Rightfully so. Take your medicine. Take a time out ,and think about what you said .Report back with your findings..

  24. #23
    Haas is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pic View Post
    Oh boy,, you just got "AHA'd". Rightfully so. Take your medicine. Take a time out ,and think about what you said .Report back with your findings..
    Ok, wait a minute. I'm not trying to start anything. I'm completely lost as to what is so wrong about what I said. Someone will have to explain it to me.

  25. #24
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    The people that do this are the cowardly of the cowards. Perhaps the knowledge that there "might" be teachers and staff that were armed, and unknown as to who might be armed may well have prevent Columbine and Sandy Hook, and others.

    Even if the cowards had attempted, they could have found themselves taken out by a good person with a gun.

    Concealed carry by teachers and staff, and many children and staff that died may well still be alive today.

  26. #25
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haas View Post
    Ok, wait a minute. I'm not trying to start anything. I'm completely lost as to what is so wrong about what I said. Someone will have to explain it to me.
    Re-read my post #18, paying particular attention to my third and fourth sentences:

    "Why would an armed guard, whose acknowledged duty was to protect the children and staff, be seen as a greater threat than a crazed killer from outside? Or even as an equal threat?
    The only answer that I can conceive to my own questions is, 'Well, he's got a loaded gun, doesn't he?'"

    If you think carefully about what you wrote, and then what I wrote, you may experience an epiphany—an "Aha!"

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