Thread: Glenn Beck did it, too!

Many people, including myself, refer to "semi-automatics" as "automatics" and then differentiate only between automatics and fully-automatics. I can't remember the last time I called my AR or any of my pistols "semi-automatic." IMO, Beck made no mistake with his terminology.

The problem is, I think, the average non gun person equates "automatic" with "machine gun". Creates a whole different view of assault weapons when they think a bunch of crazy nut jobs are running around with machine guns

Originally Posted by 48dodge

The problem is, I think, the average non gun person equates "automatic" with "machine gun". Creates a whole different view of assault weapons when they think a bunch of crazy nut jobs are running around with machine guns

Well I'm a gun guy....

I do my best to say semi-automatic if it is indeed what I know to be a semi-automatic, as in half of an automatic (the self-loading part but not the fire-the-next-round-automatically part). Can we agree that an "automatic" does two things:

-loads a cartridge using the energy of the last shot
-fires the newly loaded cartridge under a constantly depressed trigger

Given the above, what is the proper term and/or classification for a weapon such as an MP5, which can mag dump 30 rounds in 3 seconds?

Let's go ahead and eliminate the terms "awesome" and "Class III"

That's true, but Beck was thinking like a gun guy and not like some liberal, mamby-pamby journalist trying to sensationalize automatic weapons. Now that I think about it more, he deserves credit for not folding under the usual journalistic pressure of using words and terms regardless if they are wrong, so long as they get ratings or sell papers, and stuck to using correct terminology.

Originally Posted by literaltrance

Can we agree that an "automatic" does two things:
-loads a cartridge using the energy of the last shot
-fires the newly loaded cartridge under a constantly depressed trigger

Um, no. I will not agree to the second part. That's a full-auto you're describing.

From Wiki: An automatic firearm is a firearm that fires, automatically extracts the used cartridge case from the barrel and ejects it, then loads a new case into the barrel; generally by harnessing the recoil of the cartridge's explosion. The term can be used to refer to semi-automatic firearms, which fire one shot per pull of the trigger, or fully automatic firearms, which will continue to load and fire ammunition until the trigger (or other activating device) is released or until the ammunition is exhausted.

Originally Posted by literaltrance

Given the above, what is the proper term and/or classification for a weapon such as an MP5, which can mag dump 30 rounds in 3 seconds?

Full-auto

Originally Posted by Todd

Um, no. I will not agree to the second part. That's a full-auto you're describing.

From Wiki: An automatic firearm is a firearm that fires, automatically extracts the used cartridge case from the barrel and ejects it, then loads a new case into the barrel; generally by harnessing the recoil of the cartridge's explosion. The term can be used to refer to semi-automatic firearms, which fire one shot per pull of the trigger, or fully automatic firearms, which will continue to load and fire ammunition until the trigger (or other activating device) is released or until the ammunition is exhausted.

From Webster: au·to·mat·ic 3. of a firearm : firing repeatedly until the trigger is released

My understanding is that using the term "automatic" to refer to a semi-automatic began as shorthand with handguns to distinguish between revolvers and the then new semiauto pistols, probably because "semiautomatic" has two more syllables and people are lazy. Then "fully automatic" arose to distinguish between the "automatic" pistols and guns like the Mini-Uzi.

I think literaltrance is technically correct, although in popular usage, "automatic" is not a clear term since it is frequently used for both meanings. I avoid it entirely by using "semi auto" or "fully auto".

KG

Originally Posted by 48dodge

The problem is, I think, the average non gun person equates "automatic" with "machine gun". Creates a whole different view of assault weapons when they think a bunch of crazy nut jobs are running around with machine guns

And sometimes liberals purposely lie and mislead to support their viewpoints, because in their elitist world, only they know what's best for citizens of the US.

I recently saw an interview on Fox News with Gen. Wesley Clarke. who was supporting the reinstatement of the AWB. His reason? He said that people had no business running around with "machine guns". He said that only the military should have "machine guns".

So are we to believe that Gen. Clarke, a retired US Army General, doesn't know the difference between a "machine gun" and a semi-auto sporting rifle like an AR-15? Or is it more likely that Gen. Clark is a bald faced liar who is spreading liberal propaganda?

This thread reminded me of a comment from my daughter's science class instructing them not to consider Wikipedia as a solid reference. Good for general info I suppose, but far from definitive. Any meathead (like myself) can edit that content.

That's because Wiki is made up by people posting articles and they can be flawed. But every gun person knows the difference between auto and semi auto.

And we all know the wiki article in this sense is correct. So lets not split hairs. I think some "gun people" use the term auto when talking about a semi from using the term "auto loader". We all have auto loader handguns and rifles. But I wager there are not many if any having an automatic rifle/pistol.

I would imagine that Beck got caught in a slip from hearing so many others in his profession using the term automatic weapon referring to semi autos nad slipped. I'd imagine that the slew of calls and emails he gets will correct the slip0 very soon. At least I hope so.