No CC on Military Installations
After watching news about what happened at Fort Hood a friend of mine called asking “How in the WORLD can someone get away with shooting SO MANY people on a military installation?”.
My friend (no military background) is like a lot of folks in thinking on an Army Post or other Military Installation – EVERYBODY HAS A GUN.
Reality is far from that.
Pull out a map of either Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi or Florida – randomly pick any rural neighborhood and they will be better armed than any military installation.
On any military installation (In the US) – the only armed people are the MP’s and they are only carrying a 9mm Beretta. Some soldiers may be armed at the firing range but that’s about it.
If you see a convoy of hummers on the road in the US – National Guard or other – you might think “Someone would be crazy to attack THEM” but even if they are going to the firing range – NO ONE’S ARMED! You drive to the range – They issue the firearms – you shoot \ qualify – TURN THEM BACK IN and drive back unarmed again.
That’s just the way it is. No off duty CC on base. Even the MP’s go to work unarmed – check out their weapon – do their shift – turn the weapon back in and go home…
I'm not in the military but I grew up on and around Ft. Benning, GA as my grandfather was retired Air Force and worked civil service at Benning. One thing that strikes me as funny is that, though access has grown increasingly more controlled since 9/11 (with obvious reason), the gates are not better protected. 9 times out of 10 when I do have occasion to go on post, I never see MPs at the gates, I see contracted private officers or DoA police officers, who are invariably armed only with a pistol and generally there are only 2 or 3 of them on duty. Not to mention the fact that quite a few of them look like they could be taken by a 5 year old with a pellet gun.
Its too bad there isn't carry on federal installations. The government trusts our soldiers with automatic weapons and insanely expensive other munitions and equipment when they are overseas, but they aren't allowed to keep a personal weapon on duty back home. Really too bad the government fears those who are charged with protecting it.
+1, but then again, they can die but not order a beer? That whole system needs to be changed.
Originally Posted by Thanatos
Personal experience. Back in the mid-70's President Ford was to attend a demonstration of new helicopters at Ft Benning. The post was basically shut down and many of us were assigned as guards/escorts for the President. All of the bolts from our M-16's were removed.
Yep we were protecting our Commander-in-Chief with non-functional weapons!!!!! Go figure!
Sadly I can understand that practice today.
I was in Danang with the airwing (USMC) in 68-69. We were being over run every night by sappers. When we returned from a flight we had to turn our weapons in to the armory and draw them just before leaving on a flight. We were in tent hootches in the middle of the battle zone and we were not allowed to carry guns!
As I understand the reasoning, the powers that be are more afraid of an AD/ND than an attack like we saw the other day.
Bruce, Life Member: NRA
Naval Air Museum Barbers Point
"I personally think we developed language because of our deep inner need to complain."--Jane Wagner
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Originally Posted by bruce333
Government service in general tends to make policy, especially in regards to safety, towards the lowest common denominator (read moron) rather than foster an evironment of professionals that expect more not less of people and hold individuals accountable for thier actions. Not always the case but often enough. One of a few reasons 4.5 years was enough for me. What happened at Hood is a real tragedy and my heart goes out to the victims and family's. Loss is expected on the battle field but not in the rear with the gear on your own state side base. Maybe this will serve to influence brass to at least have security and guard personel armed (ahem, with ammo) going forward. Empty rifle or pistol on guard duty never made a lot of sense to me. If you can trust me with a SAW and 1000 rounds of ammo in combat but not at home on base then what good am I? Or rather where's your head at? Just one jar heads opinion.
Rather sad isn't it? During my deployments to forward bases where everyone had weapons and ammo on them all the time, the old saying "an armed society is a polite society" was proven to be true. It was an environment of confidence and trust. In myself and in others. Unfortunately, the typical reaction to events like the most recent tragedy at Ft. Hood are to do the exact opposite of what should be done. The masses will not be educated and armed in order to protect themselves and others, they will be subjected to tighter security measures ensuring nobody can protect anybody. Us military guys can be a little rowdy and we need to be kept in check to some extent, however treating us like children that can't be trusted because of a few bad apples is insulting and in the end does the exact opposite of fostering an environment of professionals.
Originally Posted by Tuefelhunden
You cannot carry a weapon in any Government office in Ohio let alone a military installation. 10 years I had to put my shotgun in the base armory while living on base - what a pain - but I have to admit up to the day that Hasan went terrorist - the military base was the only place I felt secure with my family. (As long as we stayed away from the clubs)
The other part of the problem - since I have been out - is the fact that someone in the DOD thought it would be a good idea to open the bases to the public. Show a drivers license or other picture ID and drive right on in. When I was in, it was military personnel only on the base/post. Nowadays some of the facilities are located off base/post like exchanges, medical and dental. Perhaps the military should rethink their security policies. I do know that they have an attack plan in place but as most plans in the military, they are reactive not proactive.
It's a darn shame no one recognized that this guy was a nut job waiting to explode. They probably thought he was a malingerer trying to get out of deployment and blew it off. Well hopefully they will learn something from this.
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