View Poll Results: Do you carry at church?

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  • Yes

    100 66.23%
  • No

    51 33.77%
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  1. #21
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    I guess I'd just have to ....have faith that anything requiring a weapon wouldn't occur.
    Faith didn't do much for these poor folks:

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    *August 12, 2007: A lone gunman, Eiken Elam Saimon, opened fire in a Missouri Micronesian church, killing a pastor and two other churchgoers.
    *May 20, 2007: A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Moscow, Idaho, Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.
    *Although not at a church building, the Oct. 2, 2006, attack in Lancaster County, Pa., by a gunman who killed five girls and then himself at an Amish school targeted a religious site.
    *May 21, 2006: Louisiana. Four were killed by a man at Jesus Christ Church.
    *Feb. 26, 2006: Michigan. Two people were killed at Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church by a man who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend. He later killed himself.
    *April 9, 2005: A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church in College Park, Ga., where he had once worked as a security guard.
    *March 12, 2005: A man walked into the services of the Living Church of God in Milwaukee and open fired immediately, killing seven people.
    *Oct. 5, 2003: A woman opened fire in Turner Monumental AME church in Kirkwood, east of Atlanta, killing the pastor and two others.
    *Sept. 16, 1999: Seven young people were killed when a man opened fire during a prayer service for teen-agers at the Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas
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  2. #22
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    Faith didn't do much for these poor folks:

    Nor does it really give any sort of realistic representation of gun violence. There are far more incidents of gun/any other type of violence than are reported or readily available for statistical posting on forums. It often times doesn't post that the gunman took their own life after the shooting and that the amount of people killed were a direct corrolation of one magazine/cylinder with the last round going thru the BG's own head. 2 killed, 4 killed... a result of missing with some, hitting others, then killing themselves with the remaining bullets. Sure there are some standoffs, but as Mike likes to point out, (rightfully so) why aren't people fighting back? If he's gotta reload, rush 'em.

    Making this about Faith is disingenuous. It's about people not fighting back, but rather running away rather than fighting. There is danger everywhere, regardless of the venue, people should prepare as best they can for bad joo joo to happen wherever they are.

    Like I said before, I carried in church when I had authorization to do so, but I don't now because I'd be breaking the law. I can't see the point of breaking the law just because some other whacko is breaking the law. If we all did that, there'd be an example of the degredation of society we were looking for earlier.

    I liken it to the shark attacks of a few years ago. There have always been shark attacks, but when the media becomes fixated on it, they sure seem to be happening every other day. If I recall correctly, the year they were all over the news, there were actually less shark attacks than the previous couple of years.

    The point is, once the media gets their meat hooks into a story, you'll hear about it more and more. I bet there were many shootings in those same communities that never made anything more than the local paper. It's a relatively rare and very tragic thing to happen in a church, so it goes to the front of the line on the "Oh-how-sad-O-meter".

    Zhur

  3. #23
    Mike Barham's Avatar
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    Zhurdan, I agree with most of what you've written (as usual), but I was mainly pointing out that just being in a church offers no real protection from violence. The reason we carry our guns with us is because we don't know in advance when and where we might need a pistol. It might be the supermarket, a parking lot, the bank, our job, at home, in church, whatever. We don't have any control over that, and just based on Todd's list, apparently neither does some deity.

    I fully understand and support the fact that you don't carry in church because it's illegal. That is a perfectly appropriate reason not to carry. Were I religious, I suspect I would not change churches merely because I couldn't carry, just like I continue to go to alcohol-serving restaurants here in AZ even though I can't carry in them.

    The media blows everything out of proportion, including crime, whether it's church-related or not.
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  4. #24
    James NM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham View Post
    ...The reason we carry our guns with us is because we don't know in advance when and where we might need a pistol...
    Yea, if I knew that, I'd "just stay home with a shotgun handy".

  5. #25
    mikej997 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    • August 12, 2007: A lone gunman, Eiken Elam Saimon, opened fire in a Missouri Micronesian church, killing a pastor and two other churchgoers.
    • May 20, 2007: A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Moscow, Idaho, Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.
    • Although not at a church building, the Oct. 2, 2006, attack in Lancaster County, Pa., by a gunman who killed five girls and then himself at an Amish school targeted a religious site.
    • May 21, 2006: Louisiana. Four were killed by a man at Jesus Christ Church.
    • Feb. 26, 2006: Michigan. Two people were killed at Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church by a man who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend. He later killed himself.
    • April 9, 2005: A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church in College Park, Ga., where he had once worked as a security guard.
    • March 12, 2005: A man walked into the services of the Living Church of God in Milwaukee and open fired immediately, killing seven people.
    • Oct. 5, 2003: A woman opened fire in Turner Monumental AME church in Kirkwood, east of Atlanta, killing the pastor and two others.
    • Sept. 16, 1999: Seven young people were killed when a man opened fire during a prayer service for teen-agers at the Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas.
    Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59219

    These are some of the instances that helped me decide to carry at church. I understand the media's fixation on these type of events, like plane crashes, but it just shows that no place is safe. I carry anywhere I legally can, but church is a little bit different and made me think about it. My wife also has her CCW permit but she doesn't carry to church and doesn't like me carrying to church either. You know everyone at church (especially our small one) and if one person "made" you, everyone would know. I'm sure there would be a few who would be upset. There would also be some who either didn't care or supported it. It will be the ones who are upset making the noise though. When I carry at church I am even more careful about concealment than when I am out in public, say at a store or something. I don't find myself being as concerned if a stranger spotted me carrying, although I am always careful about it. I figure that after a stranger spots me, even if they call police, once its sorted out I probably won't have to deal with that person again. Not the story at church and I guess that is what makes me be REALLY careful about concealment there.

  6. #26
    Todd is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikej997 View Post
    These are some of the instances that helped me decide to carry at church. I understand the media's fixation on these type of events, like plane crashes, but it just shows that no place is safe. I carry anywhere I legally can, but church is a little bit different and made me think about it. My wife also has her CCW permit but she doesn't carry to church and doesn't like me carrying to church either. You know everyone at church (especially our small one) and if one person "made" you, everyone would know. I'm sure there would be a few who would be upset. There would also be some who either didn't care or supported it. It will be the ones who are upset making the noise though. When I carry at church I am even more careful about concealment than when I am out in public, say at a store or something. I don't find myself being as concerned if a stranger spotted me carrying, although I am always careful about it. I figure that after a stranger spots me, even if they call police, once its sorted out I probably won't have to deal with that person again. Not the story at church and I guess that is what makes me be REALLY careful about concealment there.
    IMO, one of the biggest "threats" of being made at church is the fact that people like to hug. I'd say practice hugging you wife so that you arms are on the bottom and you're covering your gun with your arm (assuming you carry around 3:00). This may also be a great place for off-body carry. Maybe in one of the big Bible briefcase/covers?

  7. #27
    Old Padawan's Avatar
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    When hugging, hug low with you gun hand. The huggie will generally hug high when you hug low.
    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

  8. #28
    Wyatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    IMO, one of the biggest "threats" of being made at church is the fact that people like to hug. I'd say practice hugging you wife so that you arms are on the bottom and you're covering your gun with your arm (assuming you carry around 3:00). This may also be a great place for off-body carry. Maybe in one of the big Bible briefcase/covers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Padawan View Post
    When hugging, hug low with you gun hand. The huggie will generally hug high when you hug low.


    Sorry, just struck me funny.

  9. #29
    James NM's Avatar
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    Come on guys, this is a gun board!

    Enough with the hugging already.

    What's next, sunshine and lollipops?

  10. #30
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Padawan View Post
    When hugging, hug low with you gun hand. The huggie will generally hug high when you hug low.

    So is that called a "TACTICAL HUG"?? and at what point do you throw the flash bang?

    Zhur

  11. #31
    mikej997 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    So is that called a "TACTICAL HUG"?? and at what point do you throw the flash bang?

    Zhur


    Thats funny!!!

    Sad part is, its true. I had to learn that move quick so nobody would feel it on me. Flash bang... LOL

  12. #32
    mikej997 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by James NM View Post
    Come on guys, this is a gun board!

    Enough with the hugging already.

    What's next, sunshine and lollipops?
    Sunshine and lollipops!!! LOL

    We are talking about carrying at church and hugging is one of the "dangers". It's critical that you learn Zhur's "tactical hug" to avoid being made! You don't want to be caught by one of the old ladies of the church!

  13. #33
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    When talking to my wife about concealed carry I mentioned church and Jeanne Assam, the concealed carrier who countered a gunman's attack in Denver last year. My wife, sarcastically said "is that who you want to be?" I replied with dead earnest - "Abso-friggin-lutely. I pray that if I am ever in such a situation God will give me the wherewithall to respond in kind".

    I, too, feel vulnerable in church. Perhaps its because we all sit with our backs to the door or because of the presence evil in the world.

    As for folks who have mentioned they havent been to church since they were children - try it again, you may find it a completely different place as an adult. I was a typical Prodigal Son who turned away as soon as I could because it all felt so phony, contrived and filled with hypocrisy. Since returning to church I have found a much different place - the Methodists have a slogan that says "Open hears, Open Minds, Open Doors" - that's a position I can support.

  14. #34
    James NM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamik1 View Post
    ... Open Minds ..
    There's the problem for most liberals.

  15. #35
    revolvers&w is offline Junior Member
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    Amen!!

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by James NM View Post
    There's the problem for most liberals.
    Not sure I follow James . . . you mean "close-minded" is actually BETTER?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamik1 View Post
    I replied with dead earnest - "Abso-friggin-lutely. I pray that if I am ever in such a situation God will give me the wherewithall to respond in kind".
    I pray that I'm NEVER in such a situation. One scary-scary time is enough for me.

    Zhur

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamik1 View Post
    Not sure I follow James . . . you mean "close-minded" is actually BETTER?
    Liberals seem to "think" so.......No, let me rephrase that........Liberals seem to "feel" so.

  19. #39
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    I am a church Board member and in charge of our church security. Our team includes several armed individuals. Our church pays for some of our training. We have a very securty minded Pastor, oh yeah were just outside Detroit too!

  20. #40
    jadog is offline Junior Member
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    I carry in church. I can't imagine the feeling of dread I would have if the one time I needed it, I didn't have it because I thought I or my family was "safe" because of the fact we were in church.

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