Re: the Springfield Armory post.
Just yesterday I read an online rant by a very unhappy new owner of a Springfield 9mm EMP. Trust me - if I had a $1,000+ handgun that was as troublesome as his...I'd be ranting too!
But, just a few days before, I had bought [I]my own[I] 9mm EMP and put over 500 trouble-free, nearly-joyous rounds through it.
It may turn out to be the most satisfying handgun I've ever owned (and I've owned well over 100).
So what is the typical owner experience with a Springfield Armory handgun?
I tend to think that the unhappy owner simply got a "lemon". Somehow it slipped through QC. Otherwise we wouldn't see so many prospective buyers shelling out the kind of $$$ it takes to get one of their top-of-the-line 1911's.
I can also directly relate to the Bersa "question", having bought a .380CC for my wife about a year ago. It seemed to have at least one FTE per magazine!
Just as I was about to trade it in, another Bersa owner urged me to hold off until I had put a couple-hundred rounds through it. Since my wife loved the fit and feel of the gun, I grudgingly agreed to do so.
Wonder of wonders! Some time shortly after 200 rounds the Bersa began to function flawlessly...and it continues to do so.
And, ironically, JUST TODAY I was in one of the largest gun stores in the area
(Central Florida) and a rather elderly couple was looking for a "small gun for self-defense". The salesman was pitching them on a Ruger LCP...for $500!!!
Aside from the price, the couple said it just didn't feel right in their hands.
I suggested they take a look at the Bersa .380.
The salesman [I]refused to even show them one[I]! He said "no, they're just junk". I asked, if that's the case why they would SELL "junk"?
He threw up his hands and walked away!!!
The couple decided to shop elsewhere.
I own a 380 Plus and have no problem staking my life on it.To date I have shot about 500 rounds thru it with some jamming issues when it was new.
This seems to be a common complaint for most small caliber CC pistols.
After it was "broke in" it has performed perfectly every shot.
I can feed just about any brand of ammo with no complaints.It does what it was designed to do very well.
I trust this weapon,I don't like the current price of .380 AUTO ammo.
For what it's worth,my friends have all had similar experences with their "other"
brand of guns.Actually my Bersa seems to be the less finickey of the bunch..
I've never shot a Bersa, but I did hold a 45ACP Thunder about a month ago. I must confess it sure did feel like a whole lot of gun for $350 and I'm sure they can be had for cheaper. Hell, I was tempted to buy it in the hopes it would suffer from some feeding issues so I could turn it into a gunsmithing project!
At any rate, it had a tight fit and was plenty comfortable. It's also among the few ranks of compact firearms with a safety (at least it sure looked like a manual safety). Assuming it doesn't have reliability issues, it's a steal at $350 to obtain a concealable weapon like this.
I recently took my wife to the range for the first time and she instantly fell in love with shooting. When we returned home she began to search the internet for a gun she could carry. After a couple of days she came to me with this add for a bersa thunder 380. In the two weeks since she first shot we have returned to the range twice and she has learned alot about shooting(even out performing my novice shooting MALE friend. Who although i have told him otherwise seems to think that if he aims at the ground he will hit the target with the kick of the gun lol) At first all i could say is i have heard of bersa nothing good nothing bad just heard of them. Now after two weeks of research i am going to purchase the gun. Inexpensive does not always meen cheap, and inexpensive now dosent always meen inexpensive tommorow. If any of you remember in the early 90's you could get a russian made SKS for 100 bucks all day long now they retail where i live for 3 to 4 hundred. So i am getting my "cheap" gun now while they are still that way, and thanks to you guys im sure it will be a fine and dependable gun.
Side note i didnt care for most of the keltek pistols too small too long on the trigger as would be expected. I dual purpse all my pistols for personal security and range fun. I just dont think the keltek would be range worthy.
One more note. My brother is a cop and sometimes i go shooting with him and some of his friends. Now i was in the millitary but learned to shoot long before i joined for my 4 short years, and i only saw live amunition in a pistol 3 times during those years. At any rate by alot of your standards i would be considered an amature shooter and i consistently out shoot the "profesional" shooters (cops) all the time. Being a cop or in the millitary dosnt make you a great shooter practice does. and incidnetly there is no set regiment of pracitice in my brothers station which is a major metropolitan police station. Most of his friends see the range 4 to 10 times a year where as i shoot 2 to 4 times a month, so whos the amature shooter?
honestly i hav enever heard of bersa maybe they do not advertise enough
Why all the hate?
Because a lot of Sheeple are 'gun snobs' running with the flock. Unless it's one of the pricey 'big 3', "it's junk", according to most 'group huggers' seeking interweb approvals.
There's nothing that does not break. Sooner or later, everyting will fail. For one reason or another.
We've got Bersa's, Rossi's, Taurus', FireStorm's as well as high-end stuff. They are all more accurate than most can hold. They all run like champs (on factory and re-loads) untill they need something.
More $ don't always = more better. Fancier? Yes. Better? Depends on your definitiion.
I've shot some REALLY expensive custom stuff that I'd be a tad reluctent to trust my life with.
Nice to look at, tight as a drum, uber-gucci and all that stuff? Yep, it should be for that money.
But gimme an old, well worn 'shake-rattle-n-roll' when the fight starts though, anyday. And I can't see, nor could not care less, what name is stamped on it when it goes *bang*.
One of the reasons you do not hear of Bersa very often, is that they do not advertise which helps keep the cost down. Right now, I have 2 bersas and am looking for a third. People hate them because they are inexpensive, accurate, but not "look at this wonder gun-but don't touch it or drop it. It only cost 4 arms and a leg". Both my wife and I have no problem entrusting our lifes to them.
Wow I bet most people who "hate " Bersa never took the time to shoot one. I have heard people give my SR-9's a load of bad mouthing, My Bersa Thunder CC a bunch of bad mouthing and I am looking at a Stoeger Cougar right now and have heard my gun friends laugh that I would stoop so low. All of them have lost alot of respect from me because of their narrow mindedness. I own a Harley but I also own a Suzuki and a Kawasaki. I hear the same ignorant retoric from motorcycle people I am hearing from gun people. It bumms me out.
Look for the good in the gun and allow the owner to enjoy his choice and take pride in his or her weapon. A Glock was untested at one time too. If buying a Bersa expands the group of people that do what we do it is a good thing. If buying a Bersa allows someone to protect them self for 350 bucks as opposed go unprotected because they can not afford 600 bucks and their bills cut them slack.
.........It's that you shoot!
FWIW, I've owned a Bersa UC-45 for almost five years and several Bersa 9mm's for 1-5 years, depending on the particular gun. My wife shoots a Bersa 380 as BUG for her S&W "J" frame 38. My UC-45 has several thousand rounds through it and the Bersa 9's from 1,000 (the newest) to at least 4,000 for the oldest. With the exception of my UC-45 when it was new, NONE of my Bersa's has ever had a problem of any kind, period! Those initial problems I eventually discovered were due to weak recoil springs installed in certain production runs of the 45. My particular pistol was an early production model and I guess the bugs hadn't been completely removed by the factory. OTOH, after the cause of my problems was determined, that problem was corrected with new springs and I've never experienced another problem with the gun. Except for a Ruger P-85 I bought new in 1988 (which I still own) my Bersa's have been the most reliable and user friendly pistols I've ever owned. I currently own several SIG's, Rugers, CZ's and K-T pistols - to name a few - in addition to my Bersa's. I would gladly put my Bersa's up against any of them in quality and reliability.
BTW, Bersa is the official pistol of the Argentine military as well as many local police forces in Argentina, where Bersa is made. I can only assume these organizations would not use a weapon that had problems with reliability. If you want to get the real lowdown on the "big" caliber Bersa pistols in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP you should check the main Bersa forum, http://bersatalk.com.
Mike Barham, I am buying a Bersa .380 from a pawn shop locally, and I'm concerned about the coil spring on the ejector (it may be worn) Should I order a new one right off or wait til put some rounds throught it? And what type do you recommend?
On the low price issue, the Argentine economy is in really bad shape, so they have a low exchange rate with the dollar and we can get a good quality handgun for a low U.S. price. I think that if Argentina's economy was as strong as Germany's for example, you'd see the Bersa have a bigger price tag - which is one of the reasons Sigs are more expensive.
Almost all of the reviews I have seen rate the quality of Bersa very high; great features for a great price in Bersa's case means value, not cheap!
Almost everything I read about the Bersa Thunder 9s and 45s is very good. I have heard more good about them than the 380.
Well made, good shooters, dependable, great features (with the exception of the finish, which is no big deal to me).
Most reviews describe no FTFs and FTEs.
The ultra-compact 9s and 45s get great ratings. Personally, I like the weight and balance of the UC 9, and I have large hands. To me, it has a great feel.
The price is good because of the exchange rate, not cheap because of quality issues.
This Bersa is fabulous for the money, and compares well without even considering cost.. conventional hammer, but it's skeletonized... and unlike the glock, I can chamber a round and flip up the safety, and carry it with hammer down on a round in full safe mode. Pull it out of the pocket, flip down the safety and shoot 14 in a row, pulling double action on the first one. Safe, easy, not much thinking involved when you're reacting to something... it's the perfect conceal carry for me. all steel, rugged enough, should last a nice long time...
I have shot more than one Bersa. They are crap. I don't care who loves them or how many they own. Nobody is going to convince me that Bersas are of high quality. I won't tell anyone they are foolish for owning one, but I wouldn't reccommend them to anyone either. That is just my experience with them. Just so we are clear.....I have shot two brand new Bersa's (one 45, and i believe the other was a 9mm, It has been years since i shot the 9mm) and an older 380. I had cycling problems with the two newer ones. They were both owned by a friend of mine. He laughed and said "that's normal". I didn't think it was very funny. the 380 just slung lead all over the place. I think it had about a 16" group from 6 yards.
One thing I have noticed about Bersa folk is their extreme hate for other brands. I am not sure if it is a complex they have or just admission to the "Bersa Club" They bad mouth every other brand except the might Kel-Tec as if it justifies paying 350 for a weapon.
I have witnessed more hate from Bersa folks then I have towards Bersas in my pistol owning and shooting experiance.
RCG, I have had the same feelings. I own two Bersas and had ongoing problems with both of them. The BT-380 I eventually fixed myself but could not post the fix on the BersaTalk Forum due to the admins rules. My 380cc has been to the favored gun smith on the forum twice for the same problem without resolution. Posting my experiences on BersaTalk got me nothing but silly messages about how I didn't know how to shoot a gun or that I should send the gun in again. Funny, I've been shooting for almost 30 years. I thought I had a pretty good idea about how to work a pistol. As for sending it in again, that would mean again spending quite a bit to ship to ship an inexpensive gun that I'm not convinced can be fixed based on prior experience with it.
It's too bad because they aren't an undesirable weapon and a lot of people shot now because they can afford a Bersa. As a matter of fact (well really my opinion) Bersas are a decent pistol. If someone is on a limited budget or wants to become a shooter or protect themself I think Bersa is a very wise choice. Owning a Bersa and being protected is way better then no being protected. Being able to go to the range with a Bersa is better for the shooting sport then to have someone not go.
I haven't got anything against Bersa, I do not own one anymore, but the rabid Bersa owners hatred for plastic and their uncanny ability to dig up every other companies recalls and problems and then write their own shortcomings off so casually is unsettling. I understand loyalty, but I do not understand justifying by bad mouthing. It seems to be a popular Bersa owners trait. That is not saying anything bad about the gun or Bersa as a weapon.
and it shoots as straight as anything else I've got.. reliable, solidly built, straight shooter... for $350... I just couldn't be happier..
wife has a glock 26 and I like this Bersa MUCH better... I like that I can chamber a round and put it on safe and drop it in my pocket.. pull it out, flick down the safety, pull the first round DA and I'm shooting.. it seems the best way, to me... some ppl say the extra step of the safety introduces doubt as to whether it's ready to shoot... but for me, never having had anything else to use regularly, it's automatic in my mind to flick down that safety when I grab the gun... to each his own, I guess..
Bersa... great gun, whatever the price... if you prefer plastic, never mind.. but a solidly built steel gun doesn't come much better than this.
Its good that you like your weapon and have good things to say about it. It is rare that a Bersa Pep doesn't put a Glock or Ruger down in the same sentence they are proping up their gun. Case in point.
No Doubt the UC9 is a good 350 dollar steel pistol. It's not that I perfer plastic by any stretch it's that I like guns. Not just inexpensive straight shooting steel ones.
I have never said a bad thing about the weapons Bersa makes...........in any of the posts I have made. I just made an observation. It must be how you get in the club.
As the owner of a Bersa UC .45 since May, I can tell you, that Bersa may be the best kept secret in the handgun market today. I will not lie and say that the Bersa is equal to Glock, Sig etc. What I will say, is that Glock, Sig etc, may COST twice as much, but they are NOT twice the gun. To boot, Bersa has a lifetime warranty. In addition to the .45UC, I will be picking up my new UC 9 Pro later this month. And yes, my .45 has been sent back to the warranty center once...but not for anything mechanical. I felt the dutone finish on the slide was starting to peel, and a had a new slide installed under warranty.
My dad has the same atitude toward Bersa's.Im gonna get one just to make him mad.LOL.