I have read on other sites that they have since changed their mind - there will not be a joint combat pistol - There will still be an order of guns, and that is up in the air - but they won't be replacing all those Beretta M9s for a while, afterall. So, supposedly, the contract will be for a lot less guns.

I hope HK gets it w/ their HK45, though.

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

I hope HK gets it w/ their HK45, though.

I bet you anything that it will! :-D

I hope the military sticks with 9mm instead of .45s. 9mm have higher velocity and hit a target quicker than a .45s cheap 750 FPS muzzle velocity.

Originally Posted by Maser

I hope the military sticks with 9mm instead of .45s. 9mm have higher velocity and hit a target quicker than a .45s cheap 750 FPS muzzle velocity.

9mm does not have the stopping power the .45 acp does

Originally Posted by Gary_P

9mm does not have the stopping power the .45 acp does

El correcto :-D

Originally Posted by Maser

I hope the military sticks with 9mm instead of .45s. 9mm have higher velocity and hit a target quicker than a .45s cheap 750 FPS muzzle velocity.

Seems to me that the "cheap" .45 with its 750fps velocity is more than sufficient.

Remember, the military uses FMJ, not hollow points. And, the velocity of an avg .45 ACP is higher than you listed - I checked, and it averages 830-850 fps. So, .45 is better than 9mm when used in FMJ.

I prefer the 45 myself, I just have all 9mms because of the ammo cost, and I am satisfied w/ the 9mm.

Originally Posted by Method

Seems to me that the "cheap" .45 with its 750fps velocity is more than sufficient.

+1
The 1911 has worked well for 2 World Wars and many "Police Actions" not to mention today with the Specops guys.

.45 Ball Vs. 9mm ball = .45 wins

.45 Ball vs. 9mm JHP= 9mm wins

.45JHP Vs. 9mm JHP = .45 wins (But 9 will still do the job)

:-D
:-D
:-D
:-D

Originally Posted by -gunut-

.45 Ball Vs. 9mm ball = .45 wins

.45 Ball vs. 9mm JHP= 9mm wins

.45JHP Vs. 9mm JHP = .45 wins (But 9 will still do the job)

:-D
:-D
:-D
:-D

shot placement trumps all equations.......



Gary

Originally Posted by Gary_P

Originally Posted by -gunut-

.45 Ball Vs. 9mm ball = .45 wins

.45 Ball vs. 9mm JHP= 9mm wins

.45JHP Vs. 9mm JHP = .45 wins (But 9 will still do the job)

:-D
:-D
:-D
:-D

shot placement trumps all equations.......



Gary

Tiz very true

The real question is what is best when you run outta ammo and have to throw the gun at someone?

A 45 is generally heavier: hence - it makes a better rock to throw than a 9mm

Originally Posted by Gary_P

Originally Posted by -gunut-

.45 Ball Vs. 9mm ball = .45 wins

.45 Ball vs. 9mm JHP= 9mm wins

.45JHP Vs. 9mm JHP = .45 wins (But 9 will still do the job)

:-D
:-D
:-D
:-D

shot placement trumps all equations.......



Gary

Exactly!!

If I was a soldier I would much rather have a sidearm that holds 15 in the mag rather than the 1911 which is only 7.

Originally Posted by Maser

If I was a soldier I would much rather have a sidearm that holds 15 in the mag rather than the 1911 which is only 7.

First: it's 7 + 1 in the chamber, and they have MAGs that hold 8, so 8 + 1

Second: If I was a soldier I would want a gun that drops my enemy in one hit, and not 40! :x

Third: My first post! Hello from Alaska! YEEHAAA!!!

The 1911 did pretty damn well in 2 world wars. My grandfather carried a Colt 1911 in WWII. Everyone that I personally know who are in the military prefer the .45acp. Especially special ops...

If I had a choice of caliber to carry in combat, it would be the 5.7 From FN

I'll take either (prefer .45) as long as all the enemy has .22 shorts :-D :-D :-D

Originally Posted by -gunut-

I bet you anything that it will! :-D

See, all the S&W guys on that forum are betting on the .45 version of the M&P.

We'll have to see. But, that HK 45 looks pretty sweet - That might be the gun that gets me back into 45s... We'll see next year...

Shipwreck, have you thought about getting one of the USP series 45s? They are awful nice pistols.

Originally Posted by hberttmank

Shipwreck, have you thought about getting one of the USP series 45s? They are awful nice pistols.

Well, for now, I wanna stay w/ 9mm. It is so much cheaper. I can afford to go shoot every 2 weeks now.

Actually, I have a 9mm USP compact. And, I had a fullsize USP 9mm until last week. I sold it to pay for my Walther P99 fullsize. I had to pay for it somehow, which meant selling 1 of my 5 guns. Out of all of my guns, I think the fullsize USp was my least favorite - not to say I didn't like it. But, the grip was just BARELY too think for me - the gun is very thick. The width was fine - but front to back - the grip was too long.

1 handed, it wasn't too comfortable. 2 handed, it was fine.

Anyway, the grip on the USPcompact is a bit thinner, at least it is in the 9mm and .40 version.

Socom..... would rather have a .45 than a 9mm in a pistol.... Most of the Socom issued weapons are to the Spec Ops....

A .45 sound signature is much earlier to suppress than the high velocity 9mm. To slow down the 9mm for suppression.... you are losing the benefits of the round. The .45 is almost subsonic already and doesn't change the effectiveness of the round by making it a subsonic round.

A Subsonic round must travel below 1087.467 ft/sec from the muzzle. Most 9mm round are between 1300-1400 ft/sec. Where a .45 is between 800-1000 ft/sec.

Just my 2 cents worth...... Oh and I have a friend that sit in the Socom committee!!!

The eternal battle, which is better, 9mm or 45. The .45 has the larger and slower bullet, with more energy, but the 9mm is little, fast, and should penetrate better. If I were going for FMJ ammo, I think I'd be tempted to look more at the 9mm, mainly 'cause in general 9mm pistols hold more ammo.

My personal favorite round is the .40 S&W.

L J

If it wasn't for the wussies that can't shoot it, we could use the 10mm and cover just about what everybody wants: high-capacity (G20=15 rds.), relatively big bullet (.401" dia. only about .051" smaller than .45) 130 gr. up to at least 200 gr., fast as you want it to be, 1100 and UP fps. That settles it, all military goes with 10mm.