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Shipwreck
08-15-2006, 11:16 AM
LA TIMES - OPINION
Targeted by Gun Nuts

After she wrote a gun-control op-ed, the writer got threats and worse: a blogosphere hit job on her murdered brother.

By Jenny Price, Jenny Price is a freelance writer and research scholar at the UCLA Center for the Study of Women.

August 13, 2006

'A SPINELESS retard with the character of pond scum." A "whacko," "greedy un-American idiot," "fascist," "whining liberal" and "nasty little gun grabber."

Those are just some of the names I've been called since I published an Op-Ed article in the Washington Post to commemorate the fifth anniversary of my brother's death. After briefly stating that David and his fiancee were shot and killed by the fiancee's mother, who was angry that she had to move out of their L.A. apartment, I went on to argue for a national ban on handguns. The gun control lobby, led by the Brady Campaign, has worked passionately to make guns safer and to regulate their sales. But such measures, I contended, will never significantly reduce the annual U.S. death toll by firearms — 12,000 — because most murderers use legally purchased handguns and know how to operate them safely.

A couple of days later, while procrastinating on a writing assignment, I Googled my article. And so began my strange, weeklong trip through chat rooms on such pro-gun websites as keepandbeararms.com freerepublic.com, packing.org and rightnation.us.

I was not surprised by the insults directed at me. I'm familiar with the name-calling in gun control debates: "stupid," "beyond stupid," "liar," "criminal-coddling leftist scumbag," "Los Angeles coward."

I also expected threats: "OK beotch … come get my gun … bullets first."

I was hardly startled by the misogyny: "bitch," "broad" and "bimbo," but also "sweetums," "Miss Jenny" and "Jenny honey" (I'd rather be called a "spineless retard with the character of pond scum").

The sheer meanness could be breathtaking, but it was not unexpected: "Gee, Jenny dear, perhaps they just needed killin.' "

I calmly read accusations that my true goal in writing the article was to sue gun companies and profit from my brother's death. The barrage of counter-statistics was standard too, as were the paeans to the 2nd Amendment and the endless iterations of "guns don't kill people — people kill people."

But objections to my account of my brother's murder left me speechless. There were two sorts of challenges.

First, many chat-room members declared that the killing had to have been justified and was most likely an act of self-defense.

One participant, "armymarinedad," wrote: "I would submit it was a liberal mind-set." Liberals, many others agreed, are mean to their parents — mean enough to warrant homicide. "One can't help wondering," went one response to armymarinedad, "what the mother had done in a previous life to deserve … a Liberal for a daughter."

The second challenge was that I had made up the story of my brother's murder. "Law-abiding gun owners simply do not commit crimes," "Gunslinger" posted — logic hard to refute. But like David's killer, thousands of law-abiding citizens annually become criminals when they pick up a firearm and shoot other people.

"Chances are very good," wrote "Plutarch" on freerepublic.com, "that her brother, if she has one, is alive and well."

Plutarch and his freerepublic fellows Googled my story about David — and were encouraged when they came up empty because they were certain that "this remarkable murder" would have received massive media attention.

"I love to catch them [liberals] lying!" declared "mad_as_he$$."

Lamentably, a double homicide by a friend or relative of the victims is an unremarkable news event in Los Angeles County, where 17 people, on average, are shot to death every week. The Times' and Daily News' stories were brief and buried on inside pages. Because the police took all day to notify our family, David's name did not appear in them.

No matter. The freerepublic.com gang Googled some more, LexisNexised, scoured The Times' archives for headlines, dug up Social Security records. They wondered whether David and I had different last names: A "rabid feminist" like me, of course, would never use her husband's name. But "Ghengis (Alexander was a wuss!)" surmised that David and I had different fathers because that was so "common in California in the '60s."

In the midst of my detective work, I received an e-mail from a medical doctor who praised my "terrific opinion piece" and asked for "a link to any newspaper accounts." But I quickly determined that Plutarch had sent the e-mail using his real name (I can Google too).

Plutarch found a photograph of me on the Internet and posted it on the freerepublic site. He worked so hard on the case that I was rooting for him to be the guy who finally figured it out. But just after he promised his colleagues that he'd call the L.A. County coroner's office, "DakotaRed" posted a recent newspaper piece about my family that mentioned the murder. The freerepublic discussion stopped abruptly, and the chat rooms on the other pro-gun sites soon moved on as well.

So ended the efforts to prove that David either deserved to be shot to death or that he never existed.

The discussions left me profoundly sad. "You know," a friend tried to reassure me, "these are just guys who sit in front of their computers at 3 a.m. in their underwear."

But when these gun-obsessed guys in their underwear talk to like-minded guys, they build a community that reinforces a level of intolerance that is off the charts. After all, the Internet doesn't create community. People create community — and how the Internet is used depends on the people who use it.

I'd spent a week in the company of people with closed minds and cold hearts. And what saddens me most is that vengeful intolerance is all too common and leads people every day to reach for a handgun to kill people.

When the National Rifle Assn. commits itself to spreading peacefulness and tolerance among its members, I'd be all for it. Meanwhile, do you really want these people on these websites (and 40 million other people in the country) to have guns?

I can cite statistics, and I can tell you why the right to carry a 9-millimeter semiautomatic handgun with a 10-shot clip is not guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. But the paranoia and bone-chilling hatred that spew from such sites as packing.org and freerepublic.com make for an equally — and unusually — effective argument for a ban on handguns.

Wandering Man
08-15-2006, 11:35 AM
People go to see a psychologist to see if their kid has ADHD. If ADHD is all that is tested for, then ADHD is likely to be the diagnosis. You find what you look for. Broader testing might find other issues like anxiety, parenting problems, etc.

Shame she didn't look for more than what she wanted to find.

A web site that doesn't focus on political issues like this one might have opened her mind a bit.

WM

scooter
08-15-2006, 11:38 AM
Yup, but she was only looking for fuel for her fire!!

samskara
08-16-2006, 03:51 PM
It is still a sad story in that it illistrates the fact that both sides of America's polital spectum are rather closed minded. Be it on gun control or any other subject both side have thier "facts" and if you don't believe in them then obviously you are stupid. There is no dialouge going on. And there are plenty of nutcases on both sides. What ever happened to compomise? It may not be possible to make everyone happy but most of the time no one is so why not try. Just because you are republican doesn't mean that you have to hate all of those pinko communist, athiest, homosexual, leftwing, gun grabbing SOBs just like being Democrat doesn't mean that you have to hat all of those war loving, bigoted(sp?), christian, rightwing, machine gun toting SOBs. At the end of the day I really don't think the rest of the universe cares who you voted for. Just try to be a decent human being who makes other's happiness an important part of thier own.

:partyman:

Shipwreck
08-16-2006, 03:54 PM
http://weiweiworld.onestop.net/whrrd.gif

Wandering Man
08-16-2006, 04:24 PM
It is still a sad story in that it illistrates the fact that both sides of America's polital spectum are rather closed minded.
...
At the end of the day I really don't think the rest of the universe cares who you voted for. Just try to be a decent human being who makes other's happiness an important part of thier own.

:partyman:


+1

WM

Hal8000
08-16-2006, 04:49 PM
Sad... but how typical to blame the object and not the person that used it inappropriately. *sigh*

scooter
08-16-2006, 08:08 PM
:smt011 Sad... but how typical to blame the object and not the person that used it inappropriately. *sigh*
EXACTLY, drink a few and run over someone does the CAR get blamed????why are the anti's so blind:smt011 :smt011

Shipwreck
08-17-2006, 09:27 PM
Here is a published response I found to the original article...


Another Reporter Gets It Wrong In Anger and Grief.
August 14, 2006
Vox Populi, John Longenecker

Another reporter calls for the banning of weapons of those who didn’t do the shooting.

Dear Ms. Price:

Regarding your piece, Targeted By Gun Nuts appearing in the August 13, 2006 edition of The Los Angeles Times – Jenny Price is a freelance writer and research scholar at the UCLA Center for the Study of Women – perhaps I can answer in the civil tone you long for.

Ms. Price, no matter what I feel, no matter what I believe and no matter how much I hurt, I do not have the moral or legal right to stop you from publishing what you like to publish. No matter what you say, unless it is defamatory or otherwise established as illegal, I have no right to silence you.

No matter how other writers may have defamed some, and no matter how many companies may have falsely advertised, no matter how many litigants have lied under oath, been outright wrong in their allegations or no matter how many editors have mistakenly broadcast or published news which turned out to be untrue – I have positively no right to silence you.

No matter how many may have last year and no matter how many will defame, lie under oath, mistake or falsely advertise this year, I have no right to silence you, Jenny.

And I have no right even to call for silencing you. Because I have no right to stifle your civil right.

If you believe in your civil right of a free press, then you must believe also in my right to own a weapon also guaranteed by the very same document that recognizes your right to write, publish and speak.

Because taking weapons from other Americans is the equivalent of silencing writers like us. I disagree with you intensely, but I would not silence you, nor would I call for you to surrender your column’s computer based on something I didn’t like.

Our amendment – the freedom of the press – says that Congress shall make no law, but states and others may. It is not absolute. We have responsibilities. Our second amendment – also your amendment and everyone else’s – has no such language, it is absolute and says shall not be infringed. We, too, have responsibilities, and we meet them well.

You wrote that, because of some unkind blogs which responded to your article, gun owners should forfeit their weapons: this is, of course to punish us for what some say, something I doubt very much you would be for if the situation were reversed: Oh, excuse me, that is the heart of your article: that you were punished for what you wrote.

Your whole article was a rant on how you cannot take the heat for what you write; why punish others for what they write in response? And why take away weapons of those who wrote back? They simply answered in kind – in writing. Confiscating weapons for how someone answers your piece makes about as much sense as insisting on banning your computer for the conduct of others, doesn’t it? Or worse: for what you decided to write. They merely spoke their mind – as you and I do – and you wish to punish them.

This is our complaint with the media – punishing. This does not make The Times a very good ambassador for the First, does it?

Meanwhile, gun owners work very, very hard to be the best ambassadors we can be for our second amendment, and we do a pretty good job of it, do we not? As you mentioned, it is not the legitimate gun owner who is committing the crimes. You know it in your mind, but you do not permit this to reach you inside.

I understand how your feelings right about now would be of anger and grief at the loss of your brother five years ago – understandable – but you’re aiming at the wrong target. Legitimate gun owners did not do the shooting, and no matter how hurt you are by the loss of your loved one, Ms. Price, it is irrational to write what you wrote (if I may quote a few extra lines):

“I’d spent a week in the company of people with closed minds and cold hearts. And what saddens me most is that vengeful intolerance is all too common and leads people every day to reach for a handgun to kill people.”

[Note: Did anyone pick up a gun and come to shoot you, Ms. Price?]

“I can cite statistics, and I can tell you why the right to carry a 9-millimeter semiautomatic handgun with a 10-shot clip is not guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. But the paranoia and bone-chilling hatred that spew from such sites as packing.org and freerepublic.com make for an equally — and unusually — effective argument for a ban on handguns.”

This dialogue which seems difficult for you to process is purely an understandably sensitive response to your call to breach their civil right while you keep yours. Let me say again, Ms. Price, than none of these law-abiding killed your brother: a person with a criminal mind long before he ever picked up a gun killed your brother. Only one person killed your brother, not a whole segment of Americans.

Your gun owning neighbors, retired police and military and other legitimate owners you may not even be aware of did not do the shooting any more than you as a columnist joined the unethical in writing false advertising, defamation, committed perjury or any other illegal act under color of our first amendment.

How right would it be for anyone to silence you? How right is it for you to call for the silencing of others? How right would it be for us to protect your right to say what you want as we do, whether you believe it or not?

You were not targeted by gun nuts, Madam, you were targeted by a criminal who broke your heart. Condolences on the death of your brother, Ms. Price, but we didn’t do it. Your anger should be at his killer, as an individual, and not your fellow Americans who share the bill of rights with you – and, I dare say, who do a whale of a lot more protecting your right to a free press than the press does in protecting our right to defend that free press, along with other rights. It reflects, Ms. Price, a poor understanding of what rights both you and I have and the powerful responsibility we have to each other.

I understand that it is the grief talking.

I wish you calm and the release from your grief, I wish you safety and most of all I wish us all Liberty.

Yours in Liberty,

John Longenecker

Baldy
08-17-2006, 10:49 PM
Mr Longenecker Has won hands down. Why the libs got to go on these rants, and want to take away everybodys rights is beon me. They think when something happens all we got to do is pass a law. They never stop to think that there was allready a law against killing somebody. Go after the killer not our rights. I didn't kill her brother.

Maximo
08-18-2006, 10:07 AM
They never stop to think that there was allready a law against killing somebody. Go after the killer not our rights. I didn't kill her brother.




I agree with you there Baldy. Whenever someone murders another person with anything other than a gun, IE car, knife, piano wire, motorcycle helmet, hammer ect. they never seem to call for the ban of these items. It sounds a little redundent but is true none the less, guns don't kill people, people kill people. You can't change what is in another persons heart, if they are capable of commiting murder with a gun they can commit it with any number of other weapons.

Hal8000
08-18-2006, 12:33 PM
I feel much better now. That was a good come back! Too bad it probably went right over the top of her head....

Orion6
08-18-2006, 04:58 PM
Well... they do say the pen is mightier than the sword, which probably means it's mightier than the gun as well. But I don't think this unfortunate lady's brother would have been killed with a pen. I have no difficulty with the fact that if someone is of a mind to kill, then they can do it with a knife or a car or a blunt instrument almost as easily as they can do it with a gun. But what I don't like is the nature of the flak allegedly aimed at this woman by people who are supposedly responsible enough to have guns. I can't see any of the people I've seen posting on this board responding in such a way. So where do these idiots come from, and how do you shut them up?

scooter
08-18-2006, 06:01 PM
Well... they do say the pen is mightier than the sword, which probably means it's mightier than the gun as well. But I don't think this unfortunate lady's brother would have been killed with a pen. I have no difficulty with the fact that if someone is of a mind to kill, then they can do it with a knife or a car or a blunt instrument almost as easily as they can do it with a gun. But what I don't like is the nature of the flak allegedly aimed at this woman by people who are supposedly responsible enough to have guns. I can't see any of the people I've seen posting on this board responding in such a way. So where do these idiots come from, and how do you shut them up?
Sadly you cant:smt011